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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| emdawgz1 wrote: | | Michael Bay on Blu-ray: "Told You So" Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 11:00 AM ET |
so he's the one resonpsible for that awful movie.  Transformers really sucked, my 3 and 5 year old were too young for it and I was certainly too old. I think it was aimed at the viewer had just grown pubic hair or was just about to  The fact that Mike Bay seems himslef as some kind of video profit is a joke. He is just a guy making crap movies for mass consumption. He might as well be a Mccdonalds manager.
Blue Ray and most of the movie studios that support it put out a lot of Hollywood canned garbage movies. It's what sells to the average Joe 6-pack american public.
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Blinx123
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| oliverg wrote: | | Blinx123 wrote: | Err, it's pretty obvious who is more in the state of denial.
Blu-Ray only supporters (I'm purple) are more in the state of denial in saying things like "HD-DVD is dead" or spreading FUD like "Paramount and Universal have gone Blu one hour ago".
And it's like you said: Some people did 2nd hand sales but not 1st hand trash ins. That means the old HD-DVD supporters are gone but there are new to come. |
Its pretty obvious you know zilch about how business works.
The concept of nett margin must be applied - profit... 2nd hand sales do nothing for profit. Dumping players will increase turnover but not profit.
Toshiba's stock pricing is down 30+% in the last 3 months. Sony's is up 20%+.
Unless your maths is as proficinet as your other cursory assessments of HD-DVD's strategic position... ? |
You don't seem to understand me. All I said was: "The people sold their players so that there are new HD-DVD costumers which will pretty obviously buy new movies too." The people sold their players. They didn't trash them so they are still around and in the hands of people willing to support HD-DVD sales.
@kal
HD-DVD outsold Blu-Ray by 3:2 in the first couple of months from February to August. After that they were pretty equal and movies like Blade Runner and Planet Earth were even sold in the same ratio all HD-DVD was sold in the months before (3:2 in comparison with Blu-Ray).
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Blinx123 wrote: | | HD-DVD outsold Blu-Ray by 3:2 in the first couple of months from February to August. After that they were pretty equal and movies like Blade Runner and Planet Earth were even sold in the same ratio all HD-DVD was sold in the months before (3:2 in comparison with Blu-Ray). |
Yes, HD-DVD at first outsold Blu-ray but it was a steady downhill slide for HD-DVD to where we are today.
Ratio's of th same movie to another are meaningless. It doesn't matter. Total volume is all that matters to the people who want to make money in the end.
Kal
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oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Blinx123 wrote: | | oliverg wrote: | | Blinx123 wrote: | Err, it's pretty obvious who is more in the state of denial.
Blu-Ray only supporters (I'm purple) are more in the state of denial in saying things like "HD-DVD is dead" or spreading FUD like "Paramount and Universal have gone Blu one hour ago".
And it's like you said: Some people did 2nd hand sales but not 1st hand trash ins. That means the old HD-DVD supporters are gone but there are new to come. |
Its pretty obvious you know zilch about how business works.
The concept of nett margin must be applied - profit... 2nd hand sales do nothing for profit. Dumping players will increase turnover but not profit.
Toshiba's stock pricing is down 30+% in the last 3 months. Sony's is up 20%+.
Unless your maths is as proficinet as your other cursory assessments of HD-DVD's strategic position... ? |
You don't seem to understand me. All I said was: "The people sold their players so that there are new HD-DVD costumers which will pretty obviously buy new movies too." The people sold their players. They didn't trash them so they are still around and in the hands of people willing to support HD-DVD sales.
@kal
HD-DVD outsold Blu-Ray by 3:2 in the first couple of months from February to August. After that they were pretty equal and movies like Blade Runner and Planet Earth were even sold in the same ratio all HD-DVD was sold in the months before (3:2 in comparison with Blu-Ray). |
Sources? The ones I've all seen showed BR always leading 70:30 average - which prompted what we are observing now, the mass dropping of HD-DVD and adoption of BR
Unless you are talking about the time when BR was new in the market. Remember that HD-DVD had almost 12 months of a head start! Which makes it all the current events all the more pertinent
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Blinx123
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | Blinx123 wrote: | | HD-DVD outsold Blu-Ray by 3:2 in the first couple of months from February to August. After that they were pretty equal and movies like Blade Runner and Planet Earth were even sold in the same ratio all HD-DVD was sold in the months before (3:2 in comparison with Blu-Ray). |
Yes, HD-DVD at first outsold Blu-ray but it was a steady downhill slide for HD-DVD to where we are today.
Ratio's of th same movie to another are meaningless. It doesn't matter. Total volume is all that matters to the people who want to make money in the end.
Kal |
It does matter. If it wouldn't BBC would've gone Blu like it's mother Warner.
BTW: Aren't we sliding from the main topic into pretty big offtopic? I don't think I've read the headline "The big smackdown" somewhere. Same goes for the headline "Analyzing market ratios for dummies".
Would be fair if we could go back to the main topic instead of going smackdown (not only for this thread but if the smackdown doesn't stop I'm going to explode like the guy in HEROES)
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MYoung
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 369
Location: Madison, WI
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Man, $12.20 for HD DVD titles with free shipping! I like!
http://www.deepdiscount.com/HD-DVD_stcVVcatId462364VVviewcat.htm#
I got a Barnes and Noble gift card for Christmas and was disappointed when I realized that I don't read much and B&N's HD DVD's were overpriced. However, they are now running 50% HD DVDs, just like like Amazon is. There's also a coupon code you can enter to get an additional 25% off on one title...
http://www.xpbargains.com/index.php/send_deal/82927
If HD DVD is going down, at least us HD DVD folks are going to be getting some sweet deals.
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Blinx123
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| MYoung wrote: | Man, $12.20 for HD DVD titles with free shipping! I like!
http://www.deepdiscount.com/HD-DVD_stcVVcatId462364VVviewcat.htm#
I got a Barnes and Noble gift card for Christmas and was disappointed when I realized that I don't read much and B&N's HD DVD's were overpriced. However, they are now running 50% HD DVDs, just like like Amazon is. There's also a coupon code you can enter to get an additional 25% off on one title...
http://www.xpbargains.com/index.php/send_deal/82927
If HD DVD is going down, at least us HD DVD folks are going to be getting some sweet deals. |
Ya, you Yankees are lucky. I even paid 50$ to the customs and it was still cheaper than ordering the movies in good ole Europe. I got the Blade Runner Briefcase Edition for 45€. That's still 20-30€ cheaper than ordering the English or German special edition DVD box.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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I'll just offer my own experience as a fairly educated HD consumer.
I've been an HD-DVD supporter all along. I think it sucks that Sony is forcing its inferior and DRM-laden format down the industry's throats for its own benefit. I have an HD-DVD player, a Toshiba HD-A2. I'd love to have more HD content. I haven't bought a BD player because they're so much more expensive.
And I have pretty much decided not to buy any more HD-DVD disks, even used. (KennyG's sale was seriously tempting but I resisted.  Though those DeepDiscount and B&N specials may suck me in for a few...) It seems clear to me that HD-DVD is dying rapidly. I don't intend to keep two different players around forever, so I don't want to build up a library of HD-DVD titles. I'll rent a few HD-DVD titles until I cough up the $$ for a PS3 or whatever player.
I don't like it, but that's reality.
That's the conclusion of a pretty well-informed HT enthusiast. Combine that with Sony's obvious victory in the marketing arena that hits the mass market (Best Buy, Circuit City, Netflix, etc are all pushing Blu-Ray MUCH harder than HD-DVD, if they're offering HD-DVD at all) and it's clear where this is going.
Sony has won. HD-DVD is dead or at least dying.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | | Sony has won. HD-DVD is dead or at least dying. |
TRAITOR! .............................
Theres'a few movies on BR I would like to watch, show me a $99. player and I will bite.
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lyd
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Lake Mills, Wi
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | That's the conclusion of a pretty well-informed HT enthusiast. Combine that with Sony's obvious victory in the marketing arena that hits the mass market (Best Buy, Circuit City, Netflix, etc are all pushing Blu-Ray MUCH harder than HD-DVD, if they're offering HD-DVD at all) and it's clear where this is going.
Sony has won. HD-DVD is dead or at least dying. |
I agree, but I'm going to keep buying them during this blow-out period. With the combo drive and the future capability of just burning the feature to BD, or simply storing it on magnetic media, I don't see the downside.
lyd
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Brian Hampton
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1173
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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I use Netflix,.. I'm glad they kept Blu Ray.
I think I've known for a long time now that Blu Ray won anyway....
everybody, pretty much, has known since Jan 4th with WB went Blu.
-Brian
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | I'll just offer my own experience as a fairly educated HD consumer.
I've been an HD-DVD supporter all along. I think it sucks that Sony is forcing its inferior and DRM-laden format down the industry's throats for its own benefit. I have an HD-DVD player, a Toshiba HD-A2. I'd love to have more HD content. I haven't bought a BD player because they're so much more expensive.
And I have pretty much decided not to buy any more HD-DVD disks, even used. (KennyG's sale was seriously tempting but I resisted. Though those DeepDiscount and B&N specials may suck me in for a few...) It seems clear to me that HD-DVD is dying rapidly. I don't intend to keep two different players around forever, so I don't want to build up a library of HD-DVD titles. I'll rent a few HD-DVD titles until I cough up the $$ for a PS3 or whatever player.
I don't like it, but that's reality.
That's the conclusion of a pretty well-informed HT enthusiast. Combine that with Sony's obvious victory in the marketing arena that hits the mass market (Best Buy, Circuit City, Netflix, etc are all pushing Blu-Ray MUCH harder than HD-DVD, if they're offering HD-DVD at all) and it's clear where this is going.
Sony has won. HD-DVD is dead or at least dying. |
And there it is: DRM LADEN
The Boner of all studio executives. THAT'S why Sony wins.
Marc
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:48 am Post subject: |
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You know who won?..........Me that's who, for not buying into all this nonsense from the start. I resisted the urge to get involved with this mainly due to my track record of buying into the wrong one. Never give me choices. I'll pick the wrong one for sure.
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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deronmoped
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1154
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Why is there a battle to whittle it down to one type of format? Just let the people decide if they want BR, HD or both. Is that not the way it is now? You can buy a dual format player and be done with it. It's not the old Beta versus VHS wars where they did not have a dual format player available to the public.
Why was a dual format player not offered from the start so there was no big mess to start with?
Deron.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | You know who won?..........Me that's who, for not buying into all this nonsense from the start. I resisted the urge to get involved with this mainly due to my track record of buying into the wrong one. Never give me choices. I'll pick the wrong one for sure. |
You can say you won, Chip... But, while you were sitting on the sidelines waiting to feel 'safe', I've been watching movies every weekend... with a gorgeous HD picture and kick-ass surround sound... that makes SD DVD look like dog sh*t. Considering how little I've spent (I haven't bought a lot of movies in either format), I didn't really care that much which one 'won'.
Personally, I don't know why there ever had/has to be one format, either. Has the fact that there are Macs and PCs killed the computer industry? Has the fact that you can get diesel OR gas cars killed the auto industry? Of course not. There simply is no damn good reason whatsoever that there ever had to be only one format. The studios simultaneously released movies on DVD and VHS for years. With the music studios it was cassette and CD. Now, it's CD and electronic download.
Has the fact that you can buy a PlayStation, Wii, OR Xbox KILLED the video game industry? Hell, no! That industry is healthy to the tune of BILLIONS of dollars. Many of the top game companies author their games for 2, 3 - even 4 or MORE different platforms (xbox, 360, ps2, ps3, wii)!
For whatever reason, people had to unnecessarily turn this into a VHS-Beta war - for no reason that I can tell other than that it was Sony. Greed, ignorance, competition... whatever it was, it pisses me off.
SC
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| deronmoped wrote: | Why is there a battle to whittle it down to one type of format? Just let the people decide if they want BR, HD or both. Is that not the way it is now? You can buy a dual format player and be done with it. It's not the old Beta versus VHS wars where they did not have a dual format player available to the public.
Why was a dual format player not offered from the start so there was no big mess to start with?
Deron. |
I have dual format in my HTPC, so I really don't care who wins. I would prefer Sony NOT win, but I don't lay awake at night concerned about it.
A year from now if the reliability of PS3 doesn't pan out like what happened with XBOX 360 people may be singing a different tune, by then HD-DVD could be dead and buried.
These sales we are seeing with HD-DVD disks are interesting. IMO if anything will make sales happen it would be lower software cost. I hope the studios pass the savings to Blockbuster to entice them to keep HD-DVD around.
Mike
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Who really CARES about DRM on Blu-Ray?
I'm not out to COPY Blu-Ray discs! I'm not out to copy even regular DVDs or even ordinary CDs!
And I'd venture to guess that most of you aren't, either.
I buy the movie on Blu-Ray, I put it in my Blu-Ray player, I hit play, I watch the movie, whenever I want. That is PRECISELY
what I want it to do, and nothing else is required.
DRM DOESN'T MATTER ON A READ ONLY FORMAT. Not unless you're intending to PIRATE it.
CJ
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| deronmoped wrote: | | Just let the people decide if they want BR, HD or both. Is that not the way it is now? |
Yes, and according to the manufacturers and studios, people have decided. If you look at the sales figures for both formats the population decided Blu-ray.
In other news, Walmart has decided to go Blu-ray exclusive (official) and "reliable industry sources" are saying that Toshiba is on the verge of officially dropping its HD DVD format.
But if you read some of the comments posted here, I'm sure it's only a minor setback right? I'm sure that HD-DVD is not dead yet. Right? You won't be able to buy HD-DVD discs or players from Walmart or Best Buy soon, and Netflix won't rent you HD-DVD discs either, but I'm sure it's no big deal. The format's still going strong right? Geez. 
| Quote: |
Wal-Mart to Go Blu-ray Exclusive
Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:46 PM ET
Tags: Wal-Mart, High-Def Retailing (all tags)
The nation's top retailer will phase out its HD DVD support by early summer.
That's the official word this morning from Wal-Mart, first announced on the company's gadget blog, CheckOut.com.
According to Wal-Mart execs, the company will begin emphasizing Blu-ray in both brick-and-mortar stores and online over the next thirty days, with plans to completely phase out HD DVD movie and hardware sales by June 2008. The company will continue to sell DVDs and standard-definition hardware.
"We've listened to our customers, who are showing a clear preference toward Blu-ray products and movies with their purchases, explained Gary Severson, senior vice president, Home Entertainment, Wal-Mart US.
"With the customers best interest in all we do, we wanted to share our decision and timeline with them as soon as possible, knowing it will help simplify their purchase decision, increase selection, and increase adoption long term. We anticipate enhancing our selection with continued great values in hi-definition Blu-ray products, so our customers can further enhance their entertainment experience at home."
Today's announcement from Wal-Mart comes on the heels of news earlier this week that both Netflix and Best Buy had endorsed Blu-ray. |
| Quote: | Report: Toshiba to Drop HD DVD
Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 08:29 PM ET
Tags: Toshiba (all tags)
The Hollywood Reporter is citing "reliable industry sources" as saying that Toshiba is on the verge of officially dropping its HD DVD format.
Though Toshiba denies that any such decision has been made, the just-published article in The Reporter points to "substantial" losses from each HD DVD player sold and a series of high-profile defections as key motivators for the company, with one unnamed source close to the HD DVD camp telling the Reporter that "an announcement is coming soon... it could be a matter of weeks."
Asked to respond to the report, Toshiba VP Jodi Sally reiterated her company's support of the HD DVD format. "Based on its technological advancements, we continue to believe HD DVD is the best format for consumers, given the value and consistent quality inherent in our player offerings," said Sally.
The exec went on to address "the market developments in the past month," saying only that "Toshiba will continue to study the market impact and the value proposition for consumers, particularly in light of our recent price reductions on all HD DVD players."
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Kal
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| cmjohnson wrote: | Who really CARES about DRM on Blu-Ray?
I'm not out to COPY Blu-Ray discs! I'm not out to copy even regular DVDs or even ordinary CDs!
And I'd venture to guess that most of you aren't, either.
I buy the movie on Blu-Ray, I put it in my Blu-Ray player, I hit play, I watch the movie, whenever I want. That is PRECISELY
what I want it to do, and nothing else is required.
DRM DOESN'T MATTER ON A READ ONLY FORMAT. Not unless you're intending to PIRATE it.
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Exactly right, but I think the issue is a control/freedom thing. People want to be in control of the content they've purchased and not allow it to be revoked.
I'm basically with you, as I have absolutely no interest in pirating the movies. But I can see how people may not like DRM as it puts control in someone else's hands. Maybe I'm naive but I like to think that the control will be fairly 'loose' since if they tighten things too much (ie: start to annoy people) people will not buy. DRM (IMHO) should be completely invisible to the end user.
Kal
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MYoung
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 369
Location: Madison, WI
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: |
These sales we are seeing with HD-DVD disks are interesting. IMO if anything will make sales happen it would be lower software cost. I hope the studios pass the savings to Blockbuster to entice them to keep HD-DVD around.
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I agree. If there's any silver lining to all of this it's the cheap HD DVD titles. It's just a shame there aren't more titles to choose from. I have to wonder how things would have been different had HD DVDs been priced similar to DVDs from the beginning. I also have to wonder what would have happened if Toshiba and Microsoft had gone in to make the PS3's Blu-ray capability irrelevant by making the Xbox 360 add-on drive super cheap, considering there were many more Xbox 360s out there compared to PS3s a year ago. In hindsight it seems they were thinking short term trying to make money off the add-on and other hardware instead of thinking long term and getting HD DVD drives out there to get media selling and studio support. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Of course, Blu-ray still has DVD to contend with. I don't think people are going to go for $20 to $40 movies for a difference that might not be evident to them unless they have a big screen HDTV. If HD DVD dies it will be interesting to see where Blu-ray hardware and software prices go. We have yet to see a decent, future-proof, and affordable stand-alone Blu-ray player. That seems pretty odd to me. That's what's keeping me from going purple right now. I suppose older Blu-ray players will drop in price once Profile 2.0 comes out. Of course, when will that happen and how much will those players be?
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