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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: 10PG vs XGLC |
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Are these projectors really one in the same when it comes to image quality??
I suppose the XG has so many more convergence and alignment operations that perhaps it could even be sharper than the 10PG..but the 9" tubes must make for a very punchy pic!
10PG would be easier to mod for better and quieter cooling...
is every part from a normal PG interchangeable with the 10PG?
Ben
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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A PG 10 basically IS a PG but with bigger tubes. The best mod is to drop the video and system cage from a PGplus into it. It's not hard to do, but there are a few things you'll need. The F-drive and it's cable as well. Gives you better convergence options, but since the PG10 does not have the magnetics for electronic astig, you won't have that. Not without modifications to the coils, anyway. But it's not needed.
The PG10 is damn sharp.
Marc
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dbaisey
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Southern Cal LA / Seattle WA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Adding to Marc's post the basic PG's (6-9000) before the Plus series 6-9100 has focus balance for edge corrections. The mechanical set up and placement needs to be pretty exact for best performance. Its the difference for the best final image.
The Plus and above will give you separate focus control on the edges and more convergence options, more exact phase. The 10PG is a LC (liquid coupled) chassis using the HD10 lenses where the other PGs are AC (air coupled). Being a PG there are quite a few parts for them out there.
They have 'deep' contrast with a lot of punch so no need to push them. Marc, what do you run your contrast and brightness at? Doug
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deronmoped
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1154
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Ben
I had a XG1100 and now have a 10PG.
The 10PG is sharper. Running at the same lumen output the tubes will last longer too. Not having all the extra control makes the 10PG more critical on it's set up, everything has to be closer to perfect.
I modded mine for quite operation and better cooling.
That is one thing that is great about this PJ, lots of cheap parts out there. You can swap all the parts from a 9PG into a 10PG and some parts from the Plus and Extra will fit.
What Marc did was icing on the cake. I think it would be a nice option to have.
The big problem with the NEC's is, there is nothing really wrong with them. Stock form the colors are "reference quality", excellent geometry and convergence controls, not overly loud and reliable. Being nothing wrong with them no one has jumped in to improve them, kinda a good and bad thing.
I would rather own this PJ then a G90 or a Cine 9. The problem with those PJ's is cost and parts. You are paying a huge amount for a small improvement.
Deron.
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Sharper than an XG without astig controls?? That's interesting indeed. I had an XGLC here a while back and it was sharper than a 9500LC..no question about it, it was sharper. And the 10PG should be sharper still??
So power supply et all are interchangeable?? That's a huge plus...
I remember Tinman saying something about how the board layout is better in terms of cooling efficiency...so this chassis would probably lend itself quite well to a) more fans and b) bigger quieter fans...sounds like the projector for me!
Ben
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Here is an image of my PG10 after 2 hours running. Note the heatsink temperature. 123 degrees.
Marc
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Last edited by Tinman on Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Another ghostly shot. It's projecting, but the FLIR camera does not register visible light. Makes screenshots a bit of a challenge. 
Marc
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | Sharper than an XG without astig controls?? That's interesting indeed. I had an XGLC here a while back and it was sharper than a 9500LC..no question about it, it was sharper. And the 10PG should be sharper still??
So power supply et all are interchangeable?? That's a huge plus...
I remember Tinman saying something about how the board layout is better in terms of cooling efficiency...so this chassis would probably lend itself quite well to a) more fans and b) bigger quieter fans...sounds like the projector for me!
Ben |
Power supply won't fit "AS-IS" since the case is bigger for the PG10. But the boards can swap in. The PG/PGplus power supply is PLUG-IN compatible.
Doug, contrast and bright are not set up right for table mount on the Silverstar. Tend to be higher than Ceiling mount. Running 40's for bright and 75 contrast. I like it bright!
Marc
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dbaisey
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Southern Cal LA / Seattle WA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Wait....I think I see a cold air thermal in the room  But I don't see a warm air thermal coming up from the power supply  ...........
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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LOL!!! Oh God.....
You know what? I also don't see a hot thermal distortion rising up off that heatsink.... Hmmmmmm.........
Marc
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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so you're saying it runs hot?? Or what are you saying here??
Can this not be modded to run a little cooler?
What res are you running through it?
Ben
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | so you're saying it runs hot?? Or what are you saying here??
Can this not be modded to run a little cooler?
What res are you running through it?
Ben |
Ben,
THAT is a pic of a PG running very, very cool. Properly set up, with minimal electronic correction. THAT'S how it SHOULD be, but many overdrive their PG's resulting in temps over 200 degrees, burning out the H-out transistor. In real life, that heatsink is just warm to the touch. I run, and will CONTINUE to run 1080i. There is no reason to push 20 year old electronics for little gain in perceived image quality. The PG just cruises through a movie.
Marc
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, I have a Fluke 62 Mini IR Thermometer and never thought about measuring the CRT's temps. Also, ain't FLIR a little overkill in terms of HT hobbying?
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | . Also, ain't FLIR a little overkill in terms of HT hobbying? |
No......... No it's not! 
Marc
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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1080i?? Awesome...so, you're not one who thinks they NEED 1080P 
That projector must just loaf through a movie at 1080i...barely working up a sweat.
What is it that regular PG owners do to get their temps so high? Is it just a matter of scanrates or what?
Also, would 1080i be better on a 10PG vs an XGLC? I would really expect them to be the same as the XGLC if phenomenal at that res...
I had a PGXgtra that would only ever get to around 120 degrees max...must be because I only ever ran 1080i.
Ben
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Nothing wrong with 1080i. When HD is BROADCAST in 1080P, then I'll consider running it. All the 1080P BS is only because the fixed pixel displays have to de-interlace everything anyway. It's all BS. Good on a 1080P PANEL, yes. But not necessary on a multi-scan device like a CRT. But some people have to have the biggest truck, most scan-lines, longest D***..... You get the idea. It's not always BETTER.
But that's just my own opinion.
Marc
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: |
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But what is it that raises the temps of the projector? Is it purely scan rate or are there other factors?
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Scan rates and also poor setup. The projector needs to be set up mechanically as perfect as possible. This reduces the amount of electrical correction needed. Less correction = less energy = less heat. Poor setup is the biggest cause of failure, however.
Marc
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Tinman wrote: | Nothing wrong with 1080i. When HD is BROADCAST in 1080P, then I'll consider running it. All the 1080P BS is only because the fixed pixel displays have to de-interlace everything anyway. It's all BS. Good on a 1080P PANEL, yes. But not necessary on a multi-scan device like a CRT. But some people have to have the biggest truck, most scan-lines, longest D***..... You get the idea. It's not always BETTER.
But that's just my own opinion.
Marc |
It's not just your opinion Marc, many of us with good 8" machines capable of resolving 1080p (like myself and Dave/Person99) also prefer to run 1080i/60 instead of 1080p/60 because, well... we simply know better.
Kal
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:44 am Post subject: |
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I'll agree that nothing is wrong with 1080i when you are watching movies. However if you are using a HTPC it can really degrade the desktop image and the way windows appear on the screen. I ran my G70 at 1080i 96 and it looked great for movies, however for static images and windows I feel it looks much better at 1080p 60.
Of course this is all IMO,
Erik
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