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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: 50,000-to-1 Contrast Ratio? |
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http://www.primenewswire.com/newsroom/news.html?d=133945
LONG BEACH, Calif., Jan. 8, 2008 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- Epson, the number-one selling projector brand worldwide(1) is again driving innovation in the world of digital home entertainment technology with the launch of a new projector that delivers true 1080p (1,920 x 1,080 pixels) resolution and contrast ratios measuring up to 50,000:1. The Epson PowerLite(r) Home Cinema 1080 UB takes advantage of the industry's newest-generation 3LCD optical engine -- the D7 chip set with C2Fine(tm) and new UltraBlack(tm) technology and is designed to give do-it-yourself home entertainment aficionados the industry's best image quality yet for projectors in the sub-$3,000 price category.
Digital projector specs are starting to sound as wild as those for flat panels.
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Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Andrew Low
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder WHY there is a digital forum here at all - almost like the forum itself is a troll.
I'll risk posting here - to point folk at some data - interpret as you wish. ( Disclaimer: This posting reflects data available on the web - it is not an endorsement of the data, or even a claim that I believe it. )
Projector Central has a blog posting on this - no review yet.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector_news121807.htm
| Quote: | | "The Cinema Pro 1080 UB has excellent black level, contrast, and color saturation for the money. It is appropriately priced above the Panasonic AE2000, for its image quality in terms of these key parameters is a clear notch above the AE2000 as well. Conversely, the 1080 UB is priced well under the JVC RS2, and this is also as it should be. The RS2 is the superior projector in terms of black levels, contrast, and saturation. For the premium dollar you spend on the RS2, you get visibly better performance. So as we've seen before, you can safely discard the official contrast ratings (50,000:1 on the 1080 UB vs. 30,000:1 on the RS2) as reliable guides to relative contrast performance." - Evan Powell |
Its a subjective statement, not based on an actual measurement.
WSR issue 120 had a Greg Rogers review of the RS1 (15000:1 contrast)
| Quote: | | "Light output and contrast measurements were made using the HDMI input with the gray scale calibrated to D65 as above. I took initial measurements at a throw distance of 12.8 feet, which is a 1.8 throw ratio from my 85.3-inch wide, 16:9 Stewart FilmscreenŽ Studiotek screen. In the Normal lamp power mode, the RS1 produced 595 lumens, which is equivalent to 27.2 fL (foot-Lamberts) from my 1.3 gain screen, with an extraordinary 16,400:1 full-field (on-off) contrast ratio. The projector produced 703 lumens in the High Lamp mode. Hence, the RS1 simultaneously exceeded its specified contrast ratio by almost ten percent and met its advertised lumen output. That is incredibly impressive performance, because a 15,000:1 native contrast ratio was thought to be virtually unattainable by a non-CRT projector." - Greg Rogers |
The only opinion I'll risk sharing here is that CRT folk should take a little time to read the reviews on the JVC RS2. Is CRT dead? No way - not for some time. However, there are some compelling digital units out there now.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Andrew, no is asking any of the readers, or members, to expect anything reasonable in terms of behavior in this forum. In fact, it was probably added to keep the occasional digital thread out of the CRT forum. Anyway, my 'beef' with marketing is that 99.9% of consumers have no means to measure what those marketed values are. And if the 0.1% had even access to the level of measuring equipment needed, along with required environment to take advantage of, they'd still find the product not performing along the same lines as the marketing suggests.
I see no reason to read a review by a bias presenter. Find me someone that is owning it, has the environment and measuring equipment to verify results, and I'll read that. Not to take anything away from Projector Central and WSR, but their business is an agenda looking out for their business and not mine. 
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Andrew Low
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | In fact, it was probably added to keep the occasional digital thread out of the CRT forum. |
That's a logical reason. I'd almost suggest there should be a sticky thread in this forum that outlines the rules.. Rule #1 - Digital Bashing is required
RE: Marketing Hype & Untrustworthy reviewers. The web certainly isn't helping make any of this any better, as there is no reason to believe what I say is not motivated by some other agenda. It is certainly buyer beware.
My point - was that if you were "digital curious" - the only one you need to try to educate yourself on is the JVC RS2 - be that via magazine reviews, forum postings, or tracking one down in a store demo.
I'm not here to sell anyone on digital projectors - this site exists to support CRTs.
Roo
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jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: kamloops BC
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Andrew Low wrote: | | WanMan wrote: | | In fact, it was probably added to keep the occasional digital thread out of the CRT forum. |
That's a logical reason. I'd almost suggest there should be a sticky thread in this forum that outlines the rules.. Rule #1 - Digital Bashing is required
Roo |
Some of us just plain like home theater!! the bashing goes both ways though..... ANSI contrast is a far more telling measure for contrast, full on/off just impresses the noobs. The other criteria worth looking at is greyscale reproduction at all levels of light output. High end digitals are now producing great results at all levels, consumer units...not so much.
The industry reference for theater is 16 FT/Lamberts and anything above that is actually going to decrease the sensitivity of your eyesight in normal and low light scenes.
Not to hack on digitals but the issue of decreased light output with bulb life is seldom addressed in these reviews.
Oh yeah... the reason that the above review tested higher than manufacturers claimed output?...
the reference surface should have been a compressed PTFE disc with a gain of 1.0
We are not a bunch of esoteric anachronists that refuse to follow technologies advances, but if you sift through the marketing hype and use real standards- the numbers make the case. In my perfect world I will one day get to use a high output laser projection system,capable of a scanned (non pixel or fixed) image that has higher gamut,contrast,brightness low level reproduction and colour reproduction than any system we have yet. it is also still in development.
There certainly are digitals well within the realm of high end CRT image quality,but for the same price you could build,equip,furnish,and finish a REALLY nice home (crt) theater. Five or ten years from now that will not be the case and a lot of us will not be able to afford or even buy replacement tubes for our projectors.
This is a good read:
http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/projector-screens.html
laser projectors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_video_projector
oh yeah...
DIGITAL (mostly)(still) SUCKS!!!!
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Its simple. If the manufacturer stop making claims that are so outlandish then maybe we wouldn't bash them. Now CES2008 has some knucklehead claiming 1,000,000 to 1 CR. Seriously, is there an instrument on the planet that can verify this? Probably not, and as such certainly no consumer has access to it so why not claiming a Billion to one?
Oh, wait, someone is also claiming Infinite contrast. Jeez.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jask wrote: | | Not to hack on digitals but the issue of decreased light output with bulb life is seldom addressed in these reviews. |
Nor is the greyscale shifts associated over the lifespan of the bulb. Get that new digital PJ all greyscale calibrated when you first set it up? You better have bought the colorimeter yourself and not spent big $$$ paying an ISF'er because you're going to do it again in a few hundred hours, and then again, and again....
Kal
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You better have bought the colorimeter yourself and not spent big $$$ paying an ISF'er because you're going to do it again in a few hundred hours, and then again, and again.... |
Kal,
Do you have a source for this, my gut feeling is that by the last "again" the bulb would have died.
Shouldn't it be more like this:
You better have bought the colorimeter yourself and not spent big $$$ paying an ISF'er because you're going to do it again in a few hundred hours, and then again, and then BANG (bulb explodes).... 
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