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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| fireanimal wrote: |
Are you seeing any of the distortion that I am talking about on the corners of your screen?
Thanks |
[/quote]
I have an XG LC, but hell yeah, my corners suck balls.
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fireanimal
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Stayner, ON
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, so my problem may not be that uncommon.
Thanks
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| fireanimal wrote: | Ok, so my problem may not be that uncommon.
Thanks |
any number of problems on a G70 are not uncommon  I just set one up and had pin-cushion on the bottom of the screen only. Not a problem on most sets but there is no "bottom pin" on a G70. To be honest, I think Geometry glitches and anomolies on these projectors is normal as the DC board was really a work in progress when they quit making these sets.
| fireanimal wrote: | | Or maybe someone has a recommendation for a 8" CRT that would have a shorter throw distance than the G70, that I could change to. I know I could go digital....but that would be a last resort! |
it looks like you have 139" inches to the back wall. A Marquee 8500 with HD145 lenses would throw an 84" wide image at that distance with no distortion in the corners. TD = 1.144 x ( SW +9.3") You would lose the LC optics but you would also be losing a little of the noise from the G70 as the Marquee is quieter in stock form, and even more quiet with the fan mod.
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fireanimal
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Stayner, ON
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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I have 142" from the screen to the rear wall, and a 8500 did cross my mind as well, just not sure if I would notice the difference with the non LC.
Maybe one of Mike's 8500's that fully resolves 1080p might be worth it if someone wants to trade, or I am also open to a Zenith 1200, I will even drive to do the swap 
| draganm wrote: | | fireanimal wrote: | Ok, so my problem may not be that uncommon.
Thanks |
any number of problems on a G70 are not uncommon I just set one up and had pin-cushion on the bottom of the screen only. Not a problem on most sets but there is no "bottom pin" on a G70. To be honest, I think Geometry glitches and anomolies on these projectors is normal as the DC board was really a work in progress when they quit making these sets.
| fireanimal wrote: | | Or maybe someone has a recommendation for a 8" CRT that would have a shorter throw distance than the G70, that I could change to. I know I could go digital....but that would be a last resort! |
it looks like you have 139" inches to the back wall. A Marquee 8500 with HD145 lenses would throw an 84" wide image at that distance with no distortion in the corners. TD = 1.144 x ( SW +9.3") You would lose the LC optics but you would also be losing a little of the noise from the G70 as the Marquee is quieter in stock form, and even more quiet with the fan mod. |
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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I would NOT go from a G70 to an AC Marquee. I don't care how modded the Marquee is, losing the LC really takes away from the image for me.
I sold my Marquee 8000 with near perfect tubes and color filtering and now use a G70 with worn tubes and with the exception of the tube wear the G70 smokes the 8000 in every way. Now I know an 8000 isn't comparable to a MP 8500 and the MP mods will make a big difference but if you already have LC I think you will be making a step in the wrong direction giving it up.
Erik
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fireanimal
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Stayner, ON
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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The G70 does have a excellent picture and looks stunning while watching movies, or Xbox 360. I can live with it, but I think if I have a chance at a CRT that would allow larger screen, at my mounting distance, I would sell the G70.
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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What about an 8500LC, it uses any of the HD-10 series lenses so you should be able to find something with a shorter throw, the Marquee is also a shorter machine so you get a further distance from the lens to the screen.
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fireanimal
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Stayner, ON
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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I think the 8500LC even with HD-10 lenses would need a longer throw the even the G70 has. The Zeinth 1200 would be the best because it has a shorter throw and LC, the body is longer than the G70, but I should still be able to do 84"-86" Wide with it.
Thanks.
| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | | What about an 8500LC, it uses any of the HD-10 series lenses so you should be able to find something with a shorter throw, the Marquee is also a shorter machine so you get a further distance from the lens to the screen. |
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AFryia
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 965
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| fireanimal wrote: | | AFryia wrote: | | fireanimal wrote: | | My screen is 78" Wide @ 102" Throw. |
FA,
Is 78" your target size?
I'm @ 115" measured along he ceiling projecting a 92" wide image. The horizontal projection angle is 43.6 degrees. I have the test patterns ~94" wide and the rasters light up maybe ~105" at screen center.
78x102" is 41.8 degrees. If 102" is along the ceiling you could push to 81.6" based off my setup. The math is not exact, it's just meant to give you an idea. |
I can still push the rasters a little more, but the distortion gets even worse in the corners.
Are you seeing any of the distortion that I am talking about on the corners of your screen?
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Yes! at first. I work the hell out of PIN and PIN BALANCE. If you don't have enough adjustment range in one direction try tweaking the BALANCE then go back to PIN.
I ignore the extreme corners because they fall off the screen. If you noticed in my previous post the screen shot shows some pincushion at the top and bottom, on screen is fairly good IMO. Unless Green is real bad I only use ZONE to converge RED and Blue onto green.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| fireanimal wrote: | | I have 142" from the screen to the rear wall, and a 8500 did cross my mind as well, just not sure if I would notice the difference with the non LC.Maybe one of Mike's 8500's that fully resolves 1080p might be worth it if someone wants to trade, or I am also open to a Zenith 1200, I will even drive to do the swap |
yeah keep a good thought.
| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | | I would NOT go from a G70 to an AC Marquee. I don't care how modded the Marquee is, losing the LC really takes away from the image for me. I sold my Marquee 8000 with near perfect tubes and color filtering and now use a G70 with worn tubes and with the exception of the tube wear the G70 smokes the 8000 in every way. Now I know an 8000 isn't comparable to a MP 8500 and the MP mods will make a big difference but if you already have LC I think you will be making a step in the wrong direction giving it up.Erik |
no one is recomending an 8000 and The difference in performance between an 8500AC and a G70 is not as large as the difference in reliability between the 2. The LC optics alone on a G70's don't really compensate for all it's flaws IMO although when set up proeprly they do throw a really good pic.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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I'm curious what "all the flaws" are that you're referring to? Other than parts/serviceability - and perhaps a more complex signal path - I've never heard the G70 is anything but an excellent projector.
I know your biases tend toward parts, maintenance and serviceability and of course, the Marquee is second to none in that regard... But, I'm wondering if there's anything else you're referring to.
SC
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
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My G70 has very minor streaking, but then again so does the G90 and you rarely hear the G90 talked about as a "flawed" machine.
I think Draganm is just airing out his dislike for the G70 on us because he can't figure out how to set up the one he has
Erik
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | I'm curious what "all the flaws" are that you're referring to? Other than parts/serviceability - and perhaps a more complex signal path - I've never heard the G70 is anything but an excellent projector.
I know your biases tend toward parts, maintenance and serviceability and of course, the Marquee is second to none in that regard... But, I'm wondering if there's anything else you're referring to. SC |
well yes, I do consider a machine that is likely to have miltiple board failures before 5K hours to be flawed. I don't see that many failures on a MArquee until 20k to 30k hours. More specifically performace wise the flaws I see are geomtery and focus related. There's just been too many posts where people who were pretty familiar with CRT (not newby's) just could not surmount certain problems like Pincusion, Gullwings, soft corners, convergence on one part of the screen, etc., etc. I'm glad for all the sony guys that we have Curt and it sounds like he really knows this stuff when it comes to servicing the G70, otherwise you would be crazy to get one IMHO.
| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | | I think Draganm is just airing out his dislike for the G70 on us because he can't figure out how to set up the one he has Erik |
I must admit, every time I pick up the Sony remote I'm torn whether to point it at the screen or beat the projector with it. 
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fireanimal
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Stayner, ON
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't want this to turn into a G70 vs. Marquee debate, I have never seen or used a Marquee, but I am sure the G70 and Marquees both have there strengths and weaknesses.
I love the picture of my G70, and If I could move the projector back some, I am sure it would greatly reduce my geometry problem, but do to the fact of the size of my room, and the short throw of the 8500, is the only reason I am considering a change.
Here are some Screenshots from the G70, to show how good the picture is
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Very Nice,
I wish I could get my screenshots to come out like that.
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fireanimal
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Stayner, ON
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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I was shocked that they turned out that well also. I have a kodak 5 MP, used a tripod and the Firework scene mode.
| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | Very Nice,
I wish I could get my screenshots to come out like that. |
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | any number of problems on a G70 are not uncommon I just set one up and had pin-cushion on the bottom of the screen only. Not a problem on most sets but there is no "bottom pin" on a G70. |
| AFryia wrote: | | Yes! at first. I work the hell out of PIN and PIN BALANCE. If you don't have enough adjustment range in one direction try tweaking the BALANCE then go back to PIN. |
It's all in knowing what you're doing draganm.
With pin, pin balance, key, key balance, you can really get the perimeter geometry right. You have to use those adjustments in unison to achieve this. It's a bit confusing, but very effective once you get the hang of it.
| draganm wrote: | | To be honest, I think Geometry glitches and anomolies on these projectors is normal as the DC board was really a work in progress when they quit making these sets. |
I think this is somewhat true, but for a different reason:
My G70 had all kinds geometry problems. My DC board failed and I replaced it. Since then, my geometry is near spot on and very stable. This is something you should look into Curt. I think there's a LOT of DC boards out there that could use your attention.
On setup, I use tons of zone and pin to work the gull wings out. I pin cushion the corners farther out (in the up and down direction) than they already are. This also pushes the gull wing dip out. I pull the tips back in with zone as well as push the dips out with zone. I'm able to get the perimeter very straight this way. My 720 X 1280P @ 72Hz RGBHV is near perfect, as is 1080i @ 60Hz HD component. And I mean really near perfect. To just casually look at a grid without critiquing it, it looks absolutely perfect. Windows task bar is perfectly or near perfectly straight. Oddly, my HDMI/Moome card 1080i @ 60Hz setup has some gullwing I can't remove. Much worse than my other setups. I have no idea why.
Anyway, I think with a 100% properly functioning DC board, and some aggressive setup, a G70 can have excellent geometry.
Note: I don't push the picture real close to the edge on the tube face. I don't think the positives you gain by doing that are as great as the negatives.
Last edited by Phil Smith on Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:31 am; edited 2 times in total
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:59 am Post subject: |
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Phil,
I've never heard of anyone running 720 X 1280P before...
It must be one of those crazy Texas things 
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | | It must be one of those crazy Texas things |
Yep! That's it!
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Naw it's a 9/16th thing
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