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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| wendortb wrote: |
Does it really make that much difference with your screen being brighter? |
A brighter picture looks better to humans just like louder music (too a point) sounds better. It increases the dynamic range and all that. Movie theaters have to achieve 18 foot lamberts in the middle of the screen and 12 on the edge. Unless you are using a very small screen with your CRT PJ, you are most likely not even getting 12 in the middle. Most likely you are getting around 8-9 in the middle best case. So yes, I see a 20% increase in brightness as a significant improvement well worth $80. 
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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lyd
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Lake Mills, Wi
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| JustGreg wrote: | Use the same tools as a professional window washer.
http://www.windowcleaningkits.com/product-128-The+Home+Window+Cleaning+Kit+Starter+Set.aspx
The only thing you won't have to do of course is blade the screen like you would a window; to get the baked on dust, grime and bug guts off. It's clean and streak free after without all the work involved with conventional methods such as Windex. It'll take you longer to get all the stuff out of the garage and mix the cleaning solution that it will to do the job.
NOTE: Lay a long towel(s) on the carpet under the screen if not wood trimmed. If you're worried about your wood frame getting wet, duct tape the towels to the wood like you'd do when masking to paint.
Greg |
Windex worked great when I got around to trying. Cleaned it up perfectly and not a streak to be seen. I was using stuff more traditionally associated with countertops -- fantastic and the like.
That window cleaning solution you linked is designed for squeegeeing. It contains lubricating agents and no ammonia. When you are drying glass with a squeegee, pro style, it is all about using a solution that dries slowly, so it stays wet on the glass until you hit it with the blade, and reducing friction, so that the rubber lasts longer.
I don't know that it makes the most sense to use something like that in an application like this, especially if you are not using a squeegee. You might find that an isopropanol and ammonia-based solution is easier and more effective.
lyd
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Dave's right. Brightness (even a little bit) is really important - especially with a CRT projector, which has relatively low light output to begin with. Having a dark room is a little beside the point because we have to assume the room is dark for ANY kind of decent front projection. Yes, you can combat ambient light with high gain and high light output, but we're not going to find those conditions in anybody's room that visits this forum.
Take my projector and screen. My old 1271 was good for about 700 peak lumens according to the specs. Now, considering that's peak lumens, it was marketing, mine is an older projector, I'm running lower contrast than max, and I'm also running a lower color temp than they probably did when came up with the peak lumens figure, let's assume I'm actually getting about 2/3 of the peak lumens rating - or about 450 lumens. It's probably closer to half, but we'll use 450.
Using my screen size of 96x54, with a 1.0 gain screen, I'll get about 12.5 foot-Lamberts - that's on-axis and in the center of the screen. Consider that SMPTE says 16 fL is a good target, with 12 being the bare minimum. THX standard is 16.
Now, with WilsonArt (1.24 gain), I'm probably getting close to 15.5 fL. So, the difference between a 1.0 gain material (like blackout cloth) and the WilsonArt DW laminate is the difference between 'bare minimum' and target illumination. So, yeah - the $100 for the WilsonArt was very much worth it. In practice, the numbers may be even lower, but you can see how much difference there is even between a 1.0 and 1.2 gain material with our CRT projectors.
I have no idea what the true gain is on the Parkland Plastics material, but having seen the matte surface, I'd guess closer to 1.0 than 1.2.
Also, turning down contrast does not help hotspotting. Hotspotting is a function of gain, so no matter how high or low you set contrast, there is going to be hotspotting. Well, until you turn it all the way down to nothing, that is. 
SC
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: |
I have no idea what the true gain is on the Parkland Plastics material, but having seen the matte surface, I'd guess closer to 1.0 than 1.2. |
Parkland should be 1.0, but comparing it to something I knew to be 1.0, it seemed like it might be very small amount under, but I call it 1.0.
Oh, and thanks for correctly my 18 to 16--I always do that one wrong!
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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wendortb
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 107
Location: Martinsville, IN
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Well, thanks for clearing that up. Sounds like a cheap upgrade will be to upgrade my screen at some point. I am not going to do it right now, but it is something I will keep in mind. I think I am around 9 fl right now, at least according to what I read. The image still looks good to me though.
BTW, how much hotspotting is really there on the wilsonart? Is it something I will notice compared to my current parkland?
Thanks,
Travis
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:01 am Post subject: |
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I'll take a few photos and post so you can see what it looks like.
SC
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| lyd wrote: | | JustGreg wrote: | Use the same tools as a professional window washer.
http://www.windowcleaningkits.com/product-128-The+Home+Window+Cleaning+Kit+Starter+Set.aspx
The only thing you won't have to do of course is blade the screen like you would a window; to get the baked on dust, grime and bug guts off. It's clean and streak free after without all the work involved with conventional methods such as Windex. It'll take you longer to get all the stuff out of the garage and mix the cleaning solution that it will to do the job.
NOTE: Lay a long towel(s) on the carpet under the screen if not wood trimmed. If you're worried about your wood frame getting wet, duct tape the towels to the wood like you'd do when masking to paint.
Greg |
Windex worked great when I got around to trying. Cleaned it up perfectly and not a streak to be seen. I was using stuff more traditionally associated with countertops -- fantastic and the like.
That window cleaning solution you linked is designed for squeegeeing. It contains lubricating agents and no ammonia. When you are drying glass with a squeegee, pro style, it is all about using a solution that dries slowly, so it stays wet on the glass until you hit it with the blade, and reducing friction, so that the rubber lasts longer.
I don't know that it makes the most sense to use something like that in an application like this, especially if you are not using a squeegee. You might find that an isopropanol and ammonia-based solution is easier and more effective.
lyd |
I know a couple pro window washers and they don't even use the kit I linked to. They use regular old dish liquid (no antibacterial or hand softners in it) and water. I use that same recipe around my house with narry a streak. The glass is dry as soon as the squeege passes over it because the water is pushed ahead of the blade edge. The water acts as its own lubricant.
But honestly what do I know. I don't own a laminate screen I just thought the same principal would work on them as glass and tossed the idea out there. Unless somebody allows smoking in their HT or the screen is in a bar (if there are any states left that allow smoking in public places), it's really a non issue. How often would someone with a laminate screen need to clean it....once a year? Once every six months?
Anywho....this is off topic and I apologize to the OP.
Greg
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Greg
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Thanks guys! I think I will start shopping around for Wislonart. Sounds like it would be a nice low cost improvement.
Mike
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lyd
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Lake Mills, Wi
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| JustGreg wrote: | | I know a couple pro window washers and they don't even use the kit I linked to. They use regular old dish liquid (no antibacterial or hand softners in it) and water. I use that same recipe around my house with narry a streak. The glass is dry as soon as the squeege passes over it because the water is pushed ahead of the blade edge. The water acts as its own lubricant. |
Yep, absolutely. Same concept, the dishwashing liquid doesn't dry too fast, like ammonia or solvent-based solutions, and is naturally pretty slick.
| Quote: | | But honestly what do I know. I don't own a laminate screen I just thought the same principal would work on them as glass and tossed the idea out there. Unless somebody allows smoking in their HT or the screen is in a bar (if there are any states left that allow smoking in public places), it's really a non issue. How often would someone with a laminate screen need to clean it....once a year? Once every six months? |
Well, I smoke, so I need to clean mine more often.
lyd
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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I did some testing last night. I put up a piece of 8 1/2 x 11 paper, 2 samples of Wilsonart, and a friend of mine got me some of the white cardboard they use to make cigarette packs. Wow is that stuff shinny. I tried all 3 , the plain paper was very plain and dull, the cigarettes pack glossy side hot spotted like mad, the matte side was a little better than the plain 8.5 x 11 paper but the Wilsonart had them beat hands down 
Now if I could just find some. I think I'll try Rona again, or maybe a different Home Depot than last time. I have a feeling the employe was being lazy when he said they can't order it.
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lyd
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Lake Mills, Wi
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | or maybe a different Home Depot than last time. I have a feeling the employe was being lazy when he said they can't order it. |
I ordered mine from HD. Rep I dealt with didn't know anything about the larger sheets. She had to call the distributor and get back to me the next day. No problem after that, though.
Make sure you get the heavier stuff, so you can avoid some of the headaches I've had with it.
lyd
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ronholm
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 12111
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Can someone PM me the Wilsonart Part numbers and I will call a supplier of mine..
I have bought all kinds of laminate from them. They usually give me a killer price break...
I dunno why I didn't think of this before, but after reading this thread I think I need to upgrade my "blackout cloth Screen"
And I could ship the stuff anywhere....
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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ronholm
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 12111
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Perfect... I'll make the call tomorrow. I buy a ton of tile and cabinet hardware from the same company.. Hopefully the price will be in the ball park...
This is the agreed upon best stuff to buy right?
Designer White D354-60-117
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Yep. That's the stuff.
I just went to Rona and the nice girl at the counter is going to find out for me by Tuesday at noon if she can order the 5 x 12 sheets for me.
I also went to Home Depot. They have the samples there but the only offer the Wilsonart in a pre done counter top. I was tempted for a minute to aske her for a 10 x 8 seemless. It would be my 4:3 vertical counter. 
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lyd
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Lake Mills, Wi
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | I also went to Home Depot. They have the samples there but the only offer the Wilsonart in a pre done counter top. |
That's just not true, unless it is some Canadian thing. They can get anything Wilsonart makes. No matter, though. You'll probably wind up with a better price from one of these other sources anyway. HD certainly doesn't deserve your money, at this point.
lyd
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| lyd wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | I also went to Home Depot. They have the samples there but the only offer the Wilsonart in a pre done counter top. |
That's just not true, unless it is some Canadian thing. They can get anything Wilsonart makes. No matter, though. You'll probably wind up with a better price from one of these other sources anyway. HD certainly doesn't deserve your money, at this point.
lyd |
Yeah that's the third store I've been too. At least the beautiful woman that served me told me why she couldn't get it. The other guys just sat there with a dumb look on their faces.
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ronholm
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 12111
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: |
Yeah that's the third store I've been too. At least the beautiful woman that served me told me why she couldn't get it. The other guys just sat there with a dumb look on their faces. |
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... The famous "box store" " Duuhhhh" The man in orange says... "You want a what?" LMFAO...
IF You have to ask for ANYTHING in one of those places... You are screwed...
My favorite thing in the world used to be to ask the idiot at auto stoned for a lower radiator hose for my 68 super beetle.. LMAO... They would look and look... I get fed up and go next door to Napa and buy the part I was actually looking for... Then go back in the store and try and tell the kid I found the part next door... The funny thing was that the manager at Auto Stoned would always try and help the joke along... I dont' know if he was so dumb he liked me making fun of the idiots HE hired, or if he used it as a way to thin the herd... Either way it was damn funny...
The best was when I would bug them about parts for the Subaru 360... Then really go next door and pick them up... I'll bet that idiot is still looking for clutch parts for that car... (it had one of those "clutchless" auto's like the bug had for a couple years)
| Quote: |
I just went to Rona and the nice girl at the counter is going to find out for me by Tuesday at noon if she can order the 5 x 12 sheets for me.
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At what kind of price? In order to be able twist my sales rep's arm as much as possible... Well.... the more info the better...
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Not sure. She's new there an didn't know they could do custom orders from Wilsonart.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| ronholm wrote: |
My favorite thing in the world used to be to ask the idiot at auto stoned for a lower radiator hose for my 68 super beetle.. LMAO... They would look and look... I get fed up and go next door to Napa and buy the part I was actually looking for... Then go back in the store and try and tell the kid I found the part next door... The funny thing was that the manager at Auto Stoned would always try and help the joke along... I dont' know if he was so dumb he liked me making fun of the idiots HE hired, or if he used it as a way to thin the herd... Either way it was damn funny...
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My friends all use to work for a local hardware store. The stores had an online ordering system using Bell ALEX terminals. They would place orders in the spec misc catagory for spark plugs for the disel vacuum cleaners. Then when they didn't show up they would reference that screen as a back order and call all the other stores getting the guys to look for the disel spark plugs in vacuum's.
I really wish they had recorded that.
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