CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

cliffnseattle · Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 23

Controlled test of "display" and "gamma" buttons on remote:

Pressing the "display" button causes the following actions:

"H2" LED display changes to "H4" and blinks twice. The light above the ON label blinks yellow (or greenish-yellow - can't tell the exact color). The projector loses synch. After a few seconds, the projector re-synchs, usually to the previous setting, but sometimes "losing synch", and "unregistered signal" will appear (and I do the usual "new entry / copy from existing setting" procedure). The projector loses synch every time the "display" button is pressed. I have not changed the DVR setting from YCC (4:4:4, I believe) to 4:2:2 to see if the LED display changes accordingly.

Pressing the "gamma" up or down button causes:

The yellow light will blink once for each "gamma up" button press. This will continue for a number of clicks (it might be 20, matching the number of gamma steps, but the remote doesn't always respond as noted below). Eventually the yellow light stays on. Pressing the "gamma down" button is similar (yellow light blinks once for each press) until eventually the yellow light goes off and stays off. I'm conjecturing that the yellow light staying on or off signifies I've reached the end of the gamma adjustment range, but I might be completely wrong.

Sometimes the projector loses synch when pressing the gamma button (either up or down).

For both the "gamma" and "display" buttons, sometimes the EXT responds immediately, sometimes it can take multiple clicks (sometimes up to 26, at once second intervals) to respond.

Cliff

cliffnseattle · Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 23

EXT game plan?

The forum EXT thread activity seems to have died down a bit - so what is the current status of troubleshooting, and the game plan for resolution?

(Doug, I have not yet picked up a copy of Video Essentials HD DVD, but will order or pick one up soon. I do have the DVD version of Avia if you need me to do further video quality testing - I didn't do much over the weekend, was pretty frustrated with nothing much working, including the 3416 DVR constantly losing it's setup output resolution. I think it will be easier seeing or describing problems with a calibration disc, instead of trying to compare a specific scene on a non-calibration disc.)

Cliff

**kal** · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject:

Moome's sending me some parts to fix my EXT-HD ringing so we'll see how that goes. I think he's also sent off a fixed board or two other forum members to test. This is all related to the ringing issue. I haven't seen any of the other issues so I don't know how Moome's going to handle this.

Kal

**kal** · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject:

dbaisey · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject:

Cliff,
Check e-mail and PM's. Yes you can use Avia also. Is the DVR set to force one output resolution or is it set to native? Might check that.
Take a look at the display when it looses the signal and see if the H2 or H4 has changed. Doug

Trying to understand why you loose sync when adjusting gamma. Thats odd.

paw · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: Arvada, CO

cliffnseattle · Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 23

I'm fine with using the "display" and "gamma" buttons for test and calibration purposes only (i.e. having synch lost when using them). I'm just trying to help in the problem solving on the EXT-HD by describing everything I see. If the EXT was NOT supposed to be losing synch when pressing "display" or "gamma", and nobody mentioned it, it might not ever get fixed.

The "losing synch" that's more problematic is when switching between H1, H2, and CO. I'm still having all kinds of issues with losing HDCP handshakes (I assume) and losing setups and synchs (for sure) when switching between the DCH 3416 DVR and Tosh A3 HD DVD player. I'm still trying to determine which are due to the EXT and which could be a bad 3416 (or me getting up to speed on the A3 setup).

Cliff

cliffnseattle · Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 23

One more quick follow-up - my 3416 (DVR) is setup to always output 1080i, regardless of the source (whether 1080i, 720p, or some form of SD; also, it's always outputting 16:9, with black side bars for 4:3 material). The 3416 upscaler is decent, and it's nice to just have one projector convergence / setting.

I do have an issue with the 3416 constantly "losing setup" and having to be reconfigured when the EXT switches input. However, this might be due to a bad 3416 - I'm trying to get more info in a 3412 / 3416 specific forum thread elsewhere. I would hope the 3416 doesn't constantly "lose setup" by design when HDCP handshaking is lost - otherwise anyone with a HDMI switch or switching receiver would be having problems, or any power outage could force the 3416 to need to be reconfigured. But then again I've seen stranger things ...

Cliff

dbaisey · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:06 pm Post subject:

Cliff,
Your loosing the handshake when switching between the DVR and D3 HDMI inputs? Your using HDMI for both right? Doug

cliffnseattle · Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 23

Yes to both. And "losing the handshake" is purposely vague - definitely the projector loses synch when switching the inputs on the EXT, and frequently the 3416 DVR also loses its "setup" (which consists of: output resolution, it should always be 1080i, 4:3 override, it should always be off, and HDMI / DVI, it should always be HDMI).

The projector loses synch whether I switch between the DVR, A3, or the Wii (component). I expect a setting / synch change between the component and HDMI inputs (since the Wii is configured to 480p, widescreen), but I'm surprised how hard it is to switch between the DVR and the A3. It seems that 2 out of 3 times when I switch from the DVR to the A3 input, nothing is being output, and I have to power cycle the EXT before I start getting A3 output to the screen.

Any comments from me on HDCP handshaking is just (mostly uninformed) conjecture, since I don't know details of the HDMI and HDCP protocols, and have no way to capture the communication between the DVR and A3 to the EXT (I would assume there's tools available to professionals that are similar to Ethernet sniffers, which capture computer network traffic on a network bus; I've used Ethernet sniffers and other computer network protocols tools, but have not used similar tools for home theater products).

Cliff

dbaisey · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:24 am Post subject:

Cliff,
Can you try this. Select the DVR and have a image going. Shut the projector off and wait a few minutes then turn back on and see if it syncs. Thanks, Doug

**kal** · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:05 am Post subject:

bbgh35 · Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 45 Location: S.E. Michigan

My EXT box also causes my XG to lose sync with every 10th keypress or so when adjusting gamma up or down

paw · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: Arvada, CO

cliffnseattle · Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 23

Doug, the projector is not losing synch when it is the only device powered on / off, only when something changes on the EXT (or source devices). Also, pressing info on the NEC remote does show "sep" and separate H and V (negative) values, so I'm pretty sure the RGBVH configuration on the EXT is correct (and I would assume I'd see other problems - rolling picture? - if the EXT was configured for RGBS).

I popped in the Avia disk (SD) last night, and went to various cross hatches - I do see a slightly brighter "bloom" effect on the right side (I have to be careful in my use of terms, since I know "blooming" has a specific meaning in video, and I might not be using it correctly). Kind of a blob shape, maybe 1/3 of the total screen space, mostly on the right side, centered a little above the horizontal middle line. It's a slight and subtle brightening of the cross hatch lines, and probably why I didn't notice it with non-calibration material. Since I'm running 1080i I would assume it's not nearly as present / visible as those running 720p or 1080p. And if I wasn't paying attention even with the cross hatches, I might not have noticed. It's also possible my mind is playing tricks on me, and it's seeing what I'm telling it to look for. (Ahh, those placebo effects.) Smile

Cliff

HaydnG90 · Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 1356

I was watching the new Bourne Ultimatum HD-DVD disk last night on the G90 via the new EXT box. Compared to the internal HDMI card I'm using on input B, I noticed a much brighter image with the EXT box. I had to drop brightness from about 25 to 10 and still saw poor black reproduction compared to the feed through the internal card. For lack of a better word the picture looked 'overexposed' and was very noticeable with fade-to-black. I'm wondering if the gamma control might eliminate this. On the positive side the image does look a tad sharper and colors more saturated. Ringing or EE still a problem.

cliffnseattle · Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 23

Haydn - ahhhh, exactly! This is what I've been seeing using my Tosh A3 - I've had to adjust brightness down, and the picture still looks somewhat "overexposed" (or "washed out", which is what I've been describing to Doug B and others). And the colors are a little bit deeper (I describe it as "punchier") and better than before (HTPC, RGB output).

Obviously my projector (NEC 6PGXtra) is not as powerful as the G90 and I'm not running 1080p (which I assume you are), so the differences for me might be more subtle. But it's good to see similar results for other people, and especially someone running a different Moome product on a parallel input.

Cliff

HaydnG90 · Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 1356

Yep, that's it. Looks as though we are both seeing the same issues with the EXT box. I'm hoping Moome and the people who are testing new components are able to remedy these problems, which otherwise mar what is actually a great product and a step up from the previous generation. I do like the ability to plug in both the PS3 and XA2 and use the box as a switching device too.
If past experience is anything to go by Moome will find a solution soon. The bad news is that it'll probably involve a return trip to Taiwan for an upgrade. The good news is that I have a backup HDMI card on hand. Nobody said CRT was easy....

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

bbgh35 · Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 45 Location: S.E. Michigan

I'm having the axact same color problems you describe when using DVI from a PC. I started a thread but so far no solution. Moome blames the PC but your experience makes me think otherwise.