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big blue
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: IFB-FULL HDMI up and running |
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| Quote: | | So your receiver isn't converting YCbCr to RGB than? I have calibrated a lot of HDMI projectors and receivers, and have not seen a single receiver that did not force the conversion including Integra, Onkyo, Denon, etc! Even receivers with a supposed "pass through mode" still are converting YCbCr to RGB in HDMI. It's really pissing me off because a video processor will do better with YCbCr and most (all) receivers are converting the signal before it gets to the VP which degrades the final image. |
As the Lumagen Vsion HDP Pro is not routing Audio, I had to place the Receiver before the Video Processor, that is to my understanding not the best solution, but the only if I want to participate on the new Audio standards transfered only over HDMI. This is maybe a point where newer VP like the Radiance (if with HDMI Standard 1.3) would be a solution.
I had a strange phenomena on saturday. We had the projector completely switched of for a week. When I made it on, I did not get any signal to the HDMI card. Switching with IR from port 0 to 1 and backwards did not help. Switching from Input C to A and back did not help.
Only when I pulled the HDMI cable from port 0 into port 1 I got the card to work. Not a nice work when all is sitting in a Hushbox. I will report if I have this again.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: IFB-FULL HDMI up and running |
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| big blue wrote: | | Quote: | | So your receiver isn't converting YCbCr to RGB than? I have calibrated a lot of HDMI projectors and receivers, and have not seen a single receiver that did not force the conversion including Integra, Onkyo, Denon, etc! Even receivers with a supposed "pass through mode" still are converting YCbCr to RGB in HDMI. It's really pissing me off because a video processor will do better with YCbCr and most (all) receivers are converting the signal before it gets to the VP which degrades the final image. |
As the Lumagen Vsion HDP Pro is not routing Audio, I had to place the Receiver before the Video Processor, that is to my understanding not the best solution, but the only if I want to participate on the new Audio standards transfered only over HDMI. This is maybe a point where newer VP like the Radiance (if with HDMI Standard 1.3) would be a solution.
I had a strange phenomena on saturday. We had the projector completely switched of for a week. When I made it on, I did not get any signal to the HDMI card. Switching with IR from port 0 to 1 and backwards did not help. Switching from Input C to A and back did not help.
Only when I pulled the HDMI cable from port 0 into port 1 I got the card to work. Not a nice work when all is sitting in a Hushbox. I will report if I have this again. |
I assume you tried power cycling the Lumagen?
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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big blue
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: IFB-FULL HDMI up and running |
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| Quote: | | I assume you tried power cycling the Lumagen? |
Yes, every trick I know, but nothing worked. G90 noted "no signal". As we had guests, I conected my old cable to the lumagen output to enjoyed the cinema night (death at the funeral).
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big blue
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: IFB-FULL HDMI up and running |
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[quote="big blue"] | Quote: |
I had a strange phenomena on saturday. We had the projector completely switched of for a week. When I made it on, I did not get any signal to the HDMI card. Switching with IR from port 0 to 1 and backwards did not help. Switching from Input C to A and back did not help.
Only when I pulled the HDMI cable from port 0 into port 1 I got the card to work. Not a nice work when all is sitting in a Hushbox. I will report if I have this again. |
[quote="craig"] | Quote: | I assume you tried power cycling the Lumagen?
craigr |
I had some further issues not beeing able to keep signal of the HD-DVD player via HDMI to the projector.
Just for you understanding my setup is
 Toshiba HD-DVD --> (1080p60Hz or 1080p/24f via HDMI) --> Onkyo Receiver 805 --> HDMI/DVI --> Lumagen --> (1080p60Hz or 1080p/48Hz or 1080p/72Hz over DVI/HDMI) to IFB-FULL HDMI in G90. Not stabile HDCP, flicker, etc.
 If I connect Toshiba HD-DVD --> (1080p60Hz HDMI) --> Onkyo Receiver 805 --> HDMI --> (1080p60Hz) to IFB-FULL HDMI in G90 I get a good picture (after new convergenz settings im Memory). But I want to have the lumagen in the line to have better control of size, position and colour.
So I think the weak point is the EDID settings in the Lumagen or the HDMI/DVI and DVI/HDMI Adapters. I can confirme that the problem is not the IFB-FULL HDMI card.
 Craigr can you please point out your Lumagen settings ?
When I added the newly purchased Sony Bluray S350 I had the same results, it works directly but not if I have the lumagen between.
I tested every hint I got from the lumagen forum too.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: IFB-FULL HDMI up and running |
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[quote="big blue"][quote="big blue"] | Quote: |
I had a strange phenomena on saturday. We had the projector completely switched of for a week. When I made it on, I did not get any signal to the HDMI card. Switching with IR from port 0 to 1 and backwards did not help. Switching from Input C to A and back did not help.
Only when I pulled the HDMI cable from port 0 into port 1 I got the card to work. Not a nice work when all is sitting in a Hushbox. I will report if I have this again. |
| craig wrote: | | Quote: | I assume you tried power cycling the Lumagen?
craigr |
I had some further issues not beeing able to keep signal of the HD-DVD player via HDMI to the projector.
Just for you understanding my setup is
Toshiba HD-DVD --> (1080p60Hz or 1080p/24f via HDMI) --> Onkyo Receiver 805 --> HDMI/DVI --> Lumagen --> (1080p60Hz or 1080p/48Hz or 1080p/72Hz over DVI/HDMI) to IFB-FULL HDMI in G90. Not stabile HDCP, flicker, etc.
If I connect Toshiba HD-DVD --> (1080p60Hz HDMI) --> Onkyo Receiver 805 --> HDMI --> (1080p60Hz) to IFB-FULL HDMI in G90 I get a good picture (after new convergenz settings im Memory). But I want to have the lumagen in the line to have better control of size, position and colour.
So I think the weak point is the EDID settings in the Lumagen or the HDMI/DVI and DVI/HDMI Adapters. I can confirme that the problem is not the IFB-FULL HDMI card.
Craigr can you please point out your Lumagen settings ?
When I added the newly purchased Sony Bluray S350 I had the same results, it works directly but not if I have the lumagen between.
I tested every hint I got from the lumagen forum too. |
Make sure that any source devices are NOT putting out 1080p @ 60 Hz. Lumagen Vision series can not accept 1080p 60 on the input.
Next for the BD I would set the EDID on the Lumagen to "Custom" and select only YCbCr 444 and 222 and also specify 1080p @ 24 Hz. I would turn off all other resolutions and color spaces.
Next go to DVI and Hotplug. Try the three setting options in there and see if one of them works with the device.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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big blue
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: IFB-FULL HDMI up and running |
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| Quote: |
Make sure that any source devices are NOT putting out 1080p @ 60 Hz. Lumagen Vision series can not accept 1080p 60 on the input.
Next for the BD I would set the EDID on the Lumagen to "Custom" and select only YCbCr 444 and 222 and also specify 1080p @ 24 Hz. I would turn off all other resolutions and color spaces.
Next go to DVI and Hotplug. Try the three setting options in there and see if one of them works with the device.
craigr |
You are correct, the Lumagen VisionProHDP does not accept the 1080p/60 Hz according to the manual so I will set both players to 1080p24Hz.
But I is a bit strange as I remember I had th eHD-DVD working some time with 1080p/60Hz output.
Does to YCbCr 444 and 222 work when I first pass the signal via Onkyo 805 ?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:01 am Post subject: Re: IFB-FULL HDMI up and running |
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| big blue wrote: | | Quote: |
Make sure that any source devices are NOT putting out 1080p @ 60 Hz. Lumagen Vision series can not accept 1080p 60 on the input.
Next for the BD I would set the EDID on the Lumagen to "Custom" and select only YCbCr 444 and 222 and also specify 1080p @ 24 Hz. I would turn off all other resolutions and color spaces.
Next go to DVI and Hotplug. Try the three setting options in there and see if one of them works with the device.
craigr |
You are correct, the Lumagen VisionProHDP does not accept the 1080p/60 Hz according to the manual so I will set both players to 1080p24Hz.
But I is a bit strange as I remember I had th eHD-DVD working some time with 1080p/60Hz output.
Does to YCbCr 444 and 222 work when I first pass the signal via Onkyo 805 ? |
Most receivers are converting YCbCr to RGB so it may not work. I have heard of people saying that some receivers are properly routing component HDMI now, but I have seen exactly zero receivers that do this properly. Usually if you want to run component HDMI you must run the HDMI directly to the Lumagen and use eight channel analog audio to the receiver. This is very frustrating indeed...
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Set hotplug to on, my moome doesnt like it with the lumies hotplug off.
Athanasios |
My BDP-S300 needs hotplug on. Otherwise when I change memories on the Lumagen I get snow and have to input cycle.
I must set hotplug to off for my VIP722 otherwise I get re-sync every 5~10 seconds.
Depends on the source device.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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big blue
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: IFB-FULL HDMI up and running |
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[quote="big blue"] | Quote: |
You are correct, the Lumagen VisionProHDP does not accept the 1080p/60 Hz according to the manual so I will set both players to 1080p24Hz. |
In reality the player menu allow to sellect 720p > 1080i60Hz > 1080p60Hz > 1080p/24Hz . So if I want to block 1080p60Hz (too much for Lumagen input) I can not choose 1080p/24Hz and have to stay with 1080i60Hz. 
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: IFB-FULL HDMI up and running |
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[quote="big blue"] | big blue wrote: | | Quote: |
You are correct, the Lumagen VisionProHDP does not accept the 1080p/60 Hz according to the manual so I will set both players to 1080p24Hz. |
In reality the player menu allow to sellect 720p > 1080i60Hz > 1080p60Hz > 1080p/24Hz . So if I want to block 1080p60Hz (too much for Lumagen input) I can not choose 1080p/24Hz and have to stay with 1080i60Hz. |
You have to select "auto" in the Sony BD menu for resolution and turn on 24 Hz. This way the player will go to 1080p 24 Hz if you have the EDID set up properly in the Lumagen.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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big blue
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you craigr
| Quote: | | You have to select "auto" in the Sony BD menu for resolution and turn on 24 Hz. This way the player will go to 1080p 24 Hz if you have the EDID set up properly in the Lumagen. |
I had this setting before on the Blu-ray player but ist did not work.
 Since I have the right lumagen settings from you it is fine. Also with the HD-DVD player. We have a great picture 1080p/24 Hz and also the colours are good. I still need to check if the Onyko Receiver change them to RGB.
since a made an additional output memory for the lumagen I can run the card without problem up to 1080p/72HZ when using 1080p/24 Hz as input. Great picture.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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belbucus
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: Gamma adjust |
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I have experimented with every configuration I can think of, and still can see no effect whatsoever when adjusting the gamma on the IFB-FULLHD: Sony HDMI 1.3 Input Card. It is my understanding that the remote is for coarse adjust (in what appears to be 21 steps), and the trimpot is for fine adjust.
As others have sited this as a problem, I ask - has anyone had any luck with this issue? Do I have a defective card, or do none of them work?
I have experimented with every configuration I can think of, and still can see no effect whatsoever when adjusting the gamma on the IFB-FULLHD: Sony HDMI 1.3 Input Card. It is my understanding that the remote is for coarse adjust (in what appears to be 21 steps), and the trimpot is for fine adjust.
As others have sited this as a problem, I ask - has anyone had any luck with this issue? Do I have a defective card, or do none of them work?
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Holli
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Gamma adjust |
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| belbucus wrote: | | It is my understanding that the remote is for coarse adjust (in what appears to be 21 steps), and the trimpot is for fine adjust. |
Hi,
i don't know the IFB-FULLHD, but as far as i know you have to set the maximum level with the trimpot and then do the "20 step fine adjustments" using the remote.
There is a thread "Gamma option setup guide" https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=6520.html where you can download a PDF document.
Quote:
Basically, the IR driven ‘adjustment’ is 20 steps of Gamma reduction from where the card screw is set. So
the screw controls ‘max’ correction.
Regards
Holli
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belbucus
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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I've tried with the presribed procedure. I've tried with the trim set at the other extreme. I've tried with the trim set midway. Also tried adjusting the trim with the IR set at either end and midway. No visible change in image. Has ANYBODY with this card experienced a working gamma circuit?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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belbucus
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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All testing has been with an appropriate test pattern. I should note that when adjusting gamma on the older card, the change is not subtle, and is visible with just about any source material.
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belbucus
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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After much experimentation, I discovered that the gamma circuit in my FULLHD card could be activated by pressing the “0” and “100” keys which toggle between the highest and lowest settings. Once I had done this, the incremental gamma controls became active. However, the range of gamma in my FULLHD card is very narrow compared to the older card. And even at the maximum setting the blacks are severely crushed, and much detail is lost. I also noted that overall; the image looks vastly different between the two cards - with the FULLHD card presenting a much darker, higher contrast image than the older one, even with its gamma set at full and its contrast set at minimum. None of this seems as it should be, and I suspect that my FULLHD card is defective.
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barcoed
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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I'm on my second FullHD card now, the first had a smudging fault, the second has the picture so far shifted to the left (on any clamp setting) I run out of RGB shift when attempting to centre it.
I've asked Moome for a refund. He's suddenly gone very quiet.
It's a sure bet I'll never buy another Moome product.
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