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nemmi69
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: 708I - Vertical adjustment of blue and red tubes |
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When aligning the cross hairs the horizontal adjustment is fine but cannot adjust the red and blue tubes to align with the green. Nothing is mentioned in the installation manual and I do not have a service manual.
Can any one advise how to correct this? 
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Go into the 'raster shift' in the geometry menu and you'll find them..
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nemmi69
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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There is not enough raster shift to adjust them....they get maxed out 
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Are you in the geometry menu or in the convergence menu? THe geometry menu has way more range. Also, in the installation menu when you do the raster shift there, make sure those are at 50% all around.
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nemmi69
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: |
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We tried the geometry but it just hits end of range. the red and the blue are way of to the green.
Incidentally do you know a good way to stop the ht on the green leaking. When it gets really enthusiastic the picture wobbles. 
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Stonefool
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 253
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Do you mean the vertical alignment? Then you need to physically align your tubes -- for proper vertical alignment. (You need to center/zero/'50' everything first though.)
If it is the horizontal alignment of the Red and Blue tubes that doesn't add up, you still need to center/zero/'50' everything, and then do physical alignment of the phosphor on the tubes.
BTW, what resolution and frequenzy are you using?
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nemmi69
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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It is the vertical. How do you physically adjust the tubes? Sorry, no service manual. It was being set for TV here, PAL from a DVD player.
How do you clean an HT lead to stop it arcing?
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Stonefool
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 253
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| nemmi69 wrote: | It is the vertical. How do you physically adjust the tubes? Sorry, no service manual. It was being set for TV here, PAL from a DVD player.
How do you clean an HT lead to stop it arcing? |
You don't need the service manual for that, only Install/Owner for 708, found here:
http://www.curtpalme.com/Barco701_Downloads.shtm
As to the HT lead I don't know, never had that problem.
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nemmi69
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:25 am Post subject: |
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We have been through the installation and user manuals and find no mention of a physical vertical adjustments for the tubes. 
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Ile
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1491
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: |
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If I remember correct, there is no vertical mechanical sift in 7 series.
In other Barcos you can adjust it some amount, just loosening four toe-in bolts.
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Stonefool
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| nemmi69 wrote: | | We have been through the installation and user manuals and find no mention of a physical vertical adjustments for the tubes. |
Chapter 7 in the Install manual describes what you need to do.
You need to have the sheimflug rings set for all three tubes at the proper range for your screen size and you need proper raster centering on all three tubes to be able to swing the tube+lens assembly enough for the Red and Blue tubes.
You of course also need to have your PJ within the correct distance to your screen, and both your PJ and screen needs to be perpendicular to each other.
This is the only way to get proper vertical alignment, because you shouldn't really need to adjust the Raster digitally afterwards.
If you have maximized the raster, and/or are using lenses with a different aperture size, you need to "experiment" to get the optimal position for the PJ. This easiest done if you have the PJ on the floor, or a table, so you can move it back or forwards, to at least get a sence for where your min and max PJ to screen distances are for your setup.
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nemmi69
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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The tube that is the real problem is the green tube as the blue and the red are fairly close to each other vertically. The tubes swing fine for manual horizontal adjustment.
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Stonefool
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 253
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| nemmi69 wrote: | | The tube that is the real problem is the green tube as the blue and the red are fairly close to each other vertically. The tubes swing fine for manual horizontal adjustment. |
Since you are supposed to use the Green as a reference point for Red and Blue, that means the Green is always where it should be, so to speak.
Are the sheimflug rings set correct for all three tubes?
Are the raster centered on all three tubes?
Are your PJ within the correct distance to your screen?
Ehm, I believe the tubes swing in the horizontal plane for vertical adjustment. Adjusting horizontal means up and down, adjusting Vertical means left and right. Or in which fairy forest am I running around in? 
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nemmi69
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Stonefool wrote: | | nemmi69 wrote: | | The tube that is the real problem is the green tube as the blue and the red are fairly close to each other vertically. The tubes swing fine for manual horizontal adjustment. |
Since you are supposed to use the Green as a reference point for Red and Blue, that means the Green is always where it should be, so to speak.
Are the sheimflug rings set correct for all three tubes?
Are the raster centered on all three tubes?
Are your PJ within the correct distance to your screen?
Ehm, I believe the tubes swing in the horizontal plane for vertical adjustment. Adjusting horizontal means up and down, adjusting Vertical means left and right. Or in which fairy forest am I running around in? |
Yep....me flugs are all set the same
raster is set (courtesy of my mate sticking his face in each lens, recons he will get his sight back somewhen).
Distance is correct (withing a couple of CM)
As for the plane.....errrrm....well when the lens is swung horizontally thats the way the cross moves
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Pull the lenses off the tubes and take a pix of the crosshatch and post it. I've NEVER had a case where the V shift in the geometry menu won't bring the V shift into line. It's possible that the V board has an offset issue on it, but I've never seen that before.
HV lead- you need to replace it:
http://www.curtpalme.com/HV_Lead_Removal.shtm
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Stonefool
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 253
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| nemmi69 wrote: |
raster is set (courtesy of my mate sticking his face in each lens, recons he will get his sight back somewhen).
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Raster Centering should really be done with the lenses off, and using a non-metal-based ruler, i.e. nothing sharp that can end up scratching the tube face plate, not eyeballing it, especially not through the lenses, because unless your a CRT wizard with magic wands for fingers your not gonna get a 100% proper centering of the raster. After all one milimeter change on the tube does not correspond to one milimeter change on the screen.
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Distance is correct (withing a couple of CM)
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It's really easy to tell if your distance is wrong. If every thing has been done properly. For front projection. If your Red and Blue tube, adjusting both towards the Green, does not converge onto the Green cross hair, your PJ is to far away from the screen, and needs to be moved closer. If your Red and Blue cross-hairs are on oposite sides on the screen, and you can't converge either adjusting the R and B away from the Green, you have set your PJ to close to the screen.
And if you can only get one of the tubes cross-hair to converge with green, but not the other one, your setup is most likely not perpendicular, which means the angle of your whole PJ needs adjustment.
If you can swing both the Red and Blue tube+lens so that the cross-hair center of both Red and Blue tubes can move with an equal distance to, and on, the oposite side of the Green cross hair on screen (Green cross-hair which should be located at the dead center on the screen), i.e. standing behind a table mounted PJ, looking towards the screen, the Red tube+lens are on the left side, but its cross-hair should be able to move to the right of the screen center, that would be the Green cross hair. If you can do this for both the Red and Blue, then you do not have a problem with the pj to screen distance.
| Quote: | | As for the plane.....errrrm....well when the lens is swung horizontally thats the way the cross moves |
What I have learnt when it comes to CRTs, when adjusting Vertical, you look att the vertical lines of a pattern, but move left and right in the horizontal plane. When adjusting Horizontal you look at the horizontal lines in a pattern moving these up or down in the vertical plane. Of course now I am confused as to if this is the right definition or not. 
So when you say vertical does that mean the vertical lines in the test pattern, or do you mean the horizontal lines in the test pattern? 
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papalek
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Longs SC
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:03 am Post subject: |
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I think he is saying his horizontal lines will not move vertically far enough, (I think). 
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Stonefool
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 253
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| papalek wrote: | | I think he is saying his horizontal lines will not move vertically far enough, (I think). |
But that is verified by the vertical lines. 
Ah heck, who am I kiddin, I'm so confused I don't know what is up from down, left from right ... but of course that's quite normal for me.
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nemmi69
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Well the start of it all is that the cross hairs wof the red and the blue cannot be raised enough to reach the green so cannot centre them all......ooooooh I got me a headache :~
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Stonefool
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| nemmi69 wrote: | | Well the start of it all is that the cross hairs wof the red and the blue cannot be raised enough to reach the green so cannot centre them all......ooooooh I got me a headache :~ |
The smog of confusion went away ... maybe.
Just on the off chance, make sure your scan and convergence adaptation connectors are set right. (The very beginning in chapter 4 in the Installation manual. Forgetting even one of these will get you a real head ache.) This is a long shot though, I still think you need to redo the raster centering, and doing it the proper way -- removing the lenses, and using a (plastic)ruler.
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