| Author |
Message |
WTS
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1276
Location: Calgary
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well if I had to pick between the G90 and 909/Cine9 based on electronic parts being available I'd go with the Barco, no debate there for me. The 1283's mentioned were discontinued years ago, you may find some in a warehouse in Hongkong which might have them I suppose, but maybe they'll be knockoffs too.
_________________
Thanks
Walter
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mtmelvin wrote: | Thanks to everybody for the responses.
As I stated originally my main interest in this projector would be if it were easier to service and/or obtain parts for (vs. the G90). But based on the discussion here it seems that the 909 is in the same boat as the G90 for both parts and service. So that's a shame.
As far as which one is better for use in your home theater I'm sure it comes down to personal preference. I'm extremely happy with my G90 and I find it easy to set up and operate. I like the interface better than some other machines I've used. I'm not really looking for an "upgrade" from the G90, but I just may end up grabbing this thing out of curiosity. We'll see 
-Mark |
"As far as which one is better for use in your home theater"
This is something I've been saying for years. For home theater use, I doubt you could tell the difference. Any one of the 9" LC's with both red and green c-elements installed and properly set up should look almost identical in the HT environment. Now if you are talking about graphics displays, you're going to see a difference.
This is a tough group here. It's not enough to know that ALL of the later model 9" LC's can do native HD perfectly. We have to know that we can do refresh rates up to a gig and beond and we're willing to pay for that little extra that we don't even need.
When someone does a 2 high and three wide blend, let me know. I'll send the guy's with the long sleeve white jackets to assist 
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kal wrote: | Maybe Mike Parker has a Cine9/909 test unit that he keeps around for that purpose? (I don't know).
Kal |
I have two of them. One is a bench unit used to repair and test boards, and the other is a fully functioning back-up unit.
I've been working on Barco 909(s) boards for over 2 years, and not once has any of the customers I support had to purchase a new or used board from anyone..
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mike i am curious, I have heard that the 909 use a focus yoke similar to the KF2222 that we all like to use for the franken yokes on the marquee's is there a way to check the inductance(mH) values for us? Because the 909 is still being made i understand/have been told. But i bet there just as much as the 1292's focus coils from sony canada 1500 a set.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
It only took a minute to break this down the second time, because I had already checked the coil and tried it in my 8500.
It was a NO-GO!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joust
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 2429
Location: Almonte, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Marquee 8501LC
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
what are the two extra coils are used for?
i don't see the astig magnets here. do they replace that? that means this thing would have 4 astig coils for adjustment.
so why doens't it work on teh Marquee? simply the gauss? or is it the coil inductance is too far off?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: kamloops BC
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Spotmatic"] | Quote: |
909 Parts can indeed be bougt new. At a price, of course. You can easily buy another high end CRT for the price of one new SMPS that fits the Cine 9/909. If my 909 breaks down, I'm in serious trouble.
Reasoning aside: it's extremely cool 8) to own a 909 with its unheard-of bandwidth   |
so, it is expensive....(but what does Sony want for a SMPS????? ) ,perhaps not so expensive......... 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: kamloops BC
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| oliverg wrote: |
I wouldn't be suprised if a double blind A-B test between the 1209S I had and a 909 resulted in uncertain results as to which was which.
Cheers |
The engineers at Barco thought the 909 was better....
Mark was right, you are a Banker
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Other than the coolness of being able to say my bandwidth is higher than your's, in the home theater arena, what is it really worth?
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jask wrote: | | oliverg wrote: |
I wouldn't be suprised if a double blind A-B test between the 1209S I had and a 909 resulted in uncertain results as to which was which.
Cheers |
The engineers at Barco thought the 909 was better....
Mark was right, you are a Banker |
Just because something costs more doesn't mean its "better"
As for being a "Banker" go take a look at AVS's video processors section to see what a idiot he's made himself look like.
Don't blame me - Mark made comments about something he knows very little about and then he outright lied. Now he's been caught out, his credibility is shot and you insult me? In future, take your comments to PM so I can delete them.
<censored>
Sorry guys but if people want to attack me in public for no cause I tend to bite
_________________
( R ) G ( G ) 9 ( B ) 0 ( R ) G ( G ) 9 ( B ) 0
( R ) G ( G ) 9 ( B ) 0 ( R ) G ( G ) 9 ( B ) 0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kschmit2
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1141
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Oliver, how many Barcos do you have for sale atm?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
kschmit2 wrote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
wow, Oliverg, you sound more and more like an a++++++
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry?
| kschmit2 wrote: | | Oliver, how many Barcos do you have for sale atm? |
What's your problem?
_________________
( R ) G ( G ) 9 ( B ) 0 ( R ) G ( G ) 9 ( B ) 0
( R ) G ( G ) 9 ( B ) 0 ( R ) G ( G ) 9 ( B ) 0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Temper temper guys, pls mellow out.
From my perspective, the 909 and G90 are pretty much on par, and the 9500 Ultra isn't far off. RIght now, give me an Ultra any day as you can easily get parts for it. The G90 and 909, not so much. Considering the 909 is still in production, I predict that in 2-3 years we'll see a flood of 909s on the used market, right now they are rare. I have one G90 test chassis here now (not tested yet!), no 909s here. That too will change.
I think too many people are fighting over subtle nuances in differences between these makes and models. I don't think there is a clear winner as far as the 'best' projector goes. Your opinion may vary..
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You'll have to clear your driveway first!!
_________________
( R ) G ( G ) 9 ( B ) 0 ( R ) G ( G ) 9 ( B ) 0
( R ) G ( G ) 9 ( B ) 0 ( R ) G ( G ) 9 ( B ) 0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| oliverg wrote: | | G90s have 140Mhz RGB amps (LM1283s). I've read a few theories on why Sony went this way but the bottom line is that (unless the data sheets are wrong) that they have room for improvement |
The main problem with modifying a G90 is that LM1283 chip (and I'm sure that's what WTS meant in the following quote). It appears that they went with that chip because of the On-screen-display and other video control functions it provides in in that single chip.
The funny thing is, they're using a LM1283 from National Semiconductor, which is a 140mhz -3db bandwidth chip, and the Dwin HD-700 uses an LM1201 from the same manufacturer, but the LM1201 is a 200 mhz -3db video chip. It's just that the LM1201 does not have the added control features found in the LM1283.
| WTS wrote: | | Modifying a G90 is easier said than done I'm afraid. Modding a 909/Cine series or a Marquee is walk in the park compared to messing with a G90. |
In order to make this happen, you would need to de-design an entire video control section to replace all that the LM1283 does, and that would not be easy.
| Quote: | | How much room does the 909 have? If we took the top five 9" stock projectors and locked Mike Parker (or pick your talented engineer) in a room with them for a year, wouldn't you think that all 5 would have more in common than less? |
Not sure where the rest are on this, but neither 909 or G90 come close to what I can get out of an 03 version VIM. Not sure how Barco is measuring their bandwidth on the 909, but for sure there's a few devices in there that would not allow that 180 figure to get through the chain.
Why Sony or Barco did not go with the same chip being used in the marquee 03 VIM which has a bandwidth of 500mhz (AD834) is beyond me. And because you see 140mhz, that does not mean that you'll be able to get 140 mhz of performance from the overall video chain. And just like the 909, in no way is the specs correct on it as well.
The 909 and most marquees (non 03 VIM) both share the same 250mhz chip from Analog Device (AD835). However, Barco is very skillful with their video chain in pre and post 250mhz chip peaking. Which could make for better bandwidth performance.
| Quote: | Let's face it, they would all be fitted with P19LUGs, they would have improved neckboards, shorter upgraded video chains (interfaces to HDMI/DVI) and HFQs or 10Fs for lenses. They would have more in common than differences
|
The LUG's are a big plus for the G90 and 909, and could make for the sharper image, but sharpness alone is not enough to get that finer background detail that requires the higher speed video chain for best performance.
The video chain in the 909's are a tad noisy, but other than that a great machine. I have some in my area that are running at 96hz refresh at higher scan rates, and they're quite sharp. Something I would be expecting to see only from my mods at that rate..
Between the G90 and the 909, I would rate the 909 a much better bandwidth performer (but there's more to image quality than bandwidth). But the downside of the 909 is that it too could be in the limited parts category. Because they both could have parts issues. Not just that the parts for the 909 are rare, it's just that they are very expensive to purchase new.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mtmelvin
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 153
Location: Bay Area, CA
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nice post Mike.
Sadly, someone else bought that 909 before I could get to it. I would have enjoyed playing with it.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
