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jowi
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:11 am Post subject: Questions about VP50, 1209s, Moome and 1080p24 -> 1080p72 |
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I'm thinking of getting me a VP50, for some switching functionality, and for adapting the timings from my (50Hz) HD-cable box, cuz' those f*cked up 50Hz timings we get over here are not something the Barco 1209s can deal with. Typically we have to put H-Size to 99% and still the image won't fill the screen, because the frontporch and backporch are totally wrong.
Same problem will be there once i get a dedicated Bluray of HD-DVD player probably, so this will be fixable with something like a VP50.
But i have another problem, a Bluray or HD-DVD player will preferably output 24p. This is not an option on a 1209s as you know. I've tested with 48p using my HTPC, that is also not an option, flickers like hell. So, best thing is to do 1080p72 i guess? So, first question, is the VP50 able to output 1080p72 at all?
Second question, if the VP50 can do this, my Moome HDCP-to-RGBHV thingy has a HDMI 1.0 limited bandwidth of 165Mhz... so 1080p72 will not work after all... is there any chance there will be HDMI 1.3 versions of those boxes, like the Moome or HDFury, that will allow us CRT junkies to push beyond this 165Mhz limit?
Third question, in case the VP50 can not output 1080p72, i probably have to revert to 1080p60 from the VP50. How good is the VP50 in converting 1080p24 from a Bluray or HD-DVD player to 1080p60?
Thanks!
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oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: |
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1080P/24 is right out - 50hz or 48hz should work fine - I have a 1209 here with a HDFury on Port3 - I use a Crystalio 2.
I have the 120Mhz neckboards, you may have 75Mhz ones - in which case talk to Mike Parker.
You might barely be able to do 72hz with MP mods - the Ehomes do. If you have a good VP (which will input HDMI but output RGBHV) - 72hz is no problem, but I think the HDFury tops out..
You might get 1080P/24PSF working .. But 24 is really really awful for scanlines - its just too slow
Good luck
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jowi
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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I bought a new VP50 with 2 years warranty for €1400 on Ebay last week. Usual price in Europe would be around €3000... (that would be $4000) If everything goes well i will get the VP50 somewhere next week! So i can find out for myself what this thing can do for me 
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jowi
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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Mmm... troubles in VP50 land. When i try my best HTPC timings for 1080p on my 1209s on the VP50, it can't keep the 60Hz lock. The VP50 falls back to a louzy 57Hz...
Only thing i can do so far is decreasing the horizontal res to 1815 pixels, so i got 1815x1080p60...
Is the bandwidth of the VP50 limited under the 165Mhz for HDMI 1.1? I'm a bit dissapointed it can't handle this.
Below are the timings i normally use on my HTPC:
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oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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What firmware revision have you got on the VP50?
Have you tried using another source other thanthe HTPC?
AFAIK, alot of VPs (and certainly video devices) are restricted by the 165Mhz pixel clock issue - With my Crystalio 2, I'm not meant to be able to do 72 reliably. Certainly 60 is no problem.
Good luck
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oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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What firmware revision have you got on the VP50?
Have you tried using another source other thanthe HTPC?
AFAIK, alot of VPs (and certainly video devices) are restricted by the 165Mhz pixel clock issue - With my Crystalio 2, I'm not meant to be able to do 72 reliably. Certainly 60 is no problem.
Good luck.
Does the VP50 have 1080/24psf?
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jowi
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Firmware is 1.04, the latest. Funny thing is that the timings showed in the screenshot are under the 165mhz limit, but still the vp50 can't handle it.
Found out that with the settings in the screenshot (which are PERFECT, and mandatory for the Barco 1209s) as soon as the horizontal back porch exceeds 200, the vp50 starts decreasing the frequency. At the moment the H-Back is about 320-340, which is needed for the 1209s to give a good picture, the vp50 can't lock on 60Hz anymore, and is maxed out to 57hz.
A Barco 1209s is very anal about timings, the only way to get a good 1920x1080p60 is by using timings like i showed, it can vary a bit on different boards, but not much.
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jowi
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Ok, i've emailed DVDO with this... this is the reply... guess i was right all along... :
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Thank you for taking time to send us your e-mail. The VP50 has a limit of 150MHz in software. This is why the frame rate drops down when you increase the H back porch (to accommodate for the increased bandwidth. I have brought your issue up to the engineering team for evaluation and will keep you updated on the matter once I have more information available. If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me either by phone or e-mail. Thank you.
Aaron Smith
Sr. Applications & Technical Support Representative
Anchor Bay Technologies, Inc.
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Without being blunt, i think this is a major issue on the VP50. If i knew this upfront, i would never have purchased it... i assumed that by implementig HDMI on the VP50 they would also comply to the 165Mhz bandwidth... pity.
Anyway, i hope they can and will fix this. I can't imagine that after all this time i'm the first one who runs into this problem? Surely there must be more people out there with a Barco 1209s and a VP50?
I'm gonna take a look on AVS forum to see if this is mentioned there as well.
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oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: |
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AFAIK, most of the VPs out there suffer from this 
I know how you feel.
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| jowi wrote: | Ok, i've emailed DVDO with this... this is the reply... guess i was right all along... :
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Thank you for taking time to send us your e-mail. The VP50 has a limit of 150MHz in software. This is why the frame rate drops down when you increase the H back porch (to accommodate for the increased bandwidth. I have brought your issue up to the engineering team for evaluation and will keep you updated on the matter once I have more information available. If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me either by phone or e-mail. Thank you.
Aaron Smith
Sr. Applications & Technical Support Representative
Anchor Bay Technologies, Inc.
---------------------------------------------------------
Without being blunt, i think this is a major issue on the VP50. If i knew this upfront, i would never have purchased it... i assumed that by implementig HDMI on the VP50 they would also comply to the 165Mhz bandwidth... pity.
Anyway, i hope they can and will fix this. I can't imagine that after all this time i'm the first one who runs into this problem? Surely there must be more people out there with a Barco 1209s and a VP50?
I'm gonna take a look on AVS forum to see if this is mentioned there as well. |
Actually, after reading what Aaron said, it looks like they can fix it. 
At lease the limit is a "software" limit and not a hardware.
Cliff
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jowi
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| overclkr wrote: | Actually, after reading what Aaron said, it looks like they can fix it.
At lease the limit is a "software" limit and not a hardware. |
True. But since i'm in software design myself, when things are limited this way, there usually is a good reason for doing so... but i keep my fingers crossed, hoping for a fix
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jowi
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Great news on AVS, from Josh (DVDO product manager):
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The forthcoming Beta version for the VP50, v1.05, includes the following bug fixes:
1080p-24 Input to 1080p-24 Output - There should be no tearing or judder
Improved 1080i-50 Deinterlacing - In "Auto" mode 1080i-50 deinterlacing is improved
Flashing 48 Pixels - The flashing 48 pixels at the top of the screen, that appeared sporatically, are no longer...
Removed Limit on Scaler - Previously the scaler was limited to 150MHz. The new limit is 165MHz.
This version could be available as early as tomorrow.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This would solve my problem! Great!
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Wow. that was quick!!!!!
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jowi
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| overclkr wrote: | | Wow. that was quick!!!!! |
Yeah.. amazing... Josh also contacted me immediatly and emailed me the update as well  so now all i have to do is sit out this working day, drive home, and start upgrading  oh yeah and probably have some dinner and stuff 
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'm gonna have to try this myself. Hopefully they added 1080P/72hz as an output option.
Let me know after you upgrade ok?
Cliff
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jowi
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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1080p72 is all about bandwidth, my guess is this will be beyond 165Mhz. But if you're lucky, the added 15Mhz might just be enough to get this working... heavily depending on the other timings your gear needs.
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oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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That's great news. Congratulations!
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jowi
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Just uploaded the firmware, works like a dream Full 1920x1080@60Hz using the Barco 1209s timings!
Found a bug as well, 60Hz lock mode doesn't work, even though i can select 60Hz manual. Will report this to DVDO.
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jowi
Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Firmware 1.05 beta is available on DVDO's website for download.
Some screenshots. Projector is a Barco 1209s, screen is a 96" wide Carada screen:
(pics resized to 800x600)
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