CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Curt Palme]

I'm going to be as neutral as I can posting the facts here, but frankly I'm pissed... (and most of you know, it takes a LOT to get me pissed.. )

Back at the beginning of June, the 10th or so I think, I installed an audio and video system in a pub that's a few hours out of town. I had done business with the owner before, he used to own a porno theater in town until he shut it down. I'd sold him several CRT projectors over the years, as he ran his place 365 days a year, 14 hours a day. The last install was two Barco 808 sets that were projected on an 11' screen (no stacking or blending) about 6 years ago. A completely putch black room as you can imagine, the image was fine with a line doubler.

The owner was known to late pay and in fact never paid me in full for the two Barco 808s, but when he shut the place down, I got the projectors back and sold them for more than what the balance was left owing, so it worked out (the sets were 14' in the air, and yes, I cleaned the cases..)

Anyways, so he approaches me to install this sound and video system. I hesitate as I'm not really doing a lot of sound any more, but it was going to be a quick 4 day install, and he paid 50% up front. Amongst the things installed was a Marquee 8500 with minty tubes in it, a 5 X 7 Draper screen, and a transcoder along with a cable company supplied HD box. THe overall installation went relatively smoothly, the only thing we ran into was pulling out 100s of feet of wire from old installations, I posted some pix of the place here I think a while back...Everything worked fine, the projector looked great on the HD channels.

Also, my 'assisting' his maintenance guy in hanging the customer supplied plasmas turned into 8 hours of work for me, as his maintenance guy 'assisted' me. So I did spend a few more hours on the job on stuff that wasn't part of my contract.
Now, since we'd used up the allocated out of town trips with the plasma install, I told him to put me up at the hotel for a night, and I'd come over with the g/f and spend a night there and would train their staff on the whole a/v system, a few days before they opened. I never did get the call. He did agree to put me up for a night, no problem there.

The terms of the contract (verbal, although I'd written them into the quote) was 50% up front which the customer did, and 25% net 30, the last 25% net 60. I did tell the customer up front that I didn't want to chase him for the final payment, so I expected to take the postdated checks with me when I was done. (the place was out of town, remember?)

I go to collect the checks, and the owner had gone to Vancouver on the ferry already, so I couldn't get the checks. So I call him a couple of weeks later, turns out he's in Cancun on vacation. Damn, there's the one check that will be late already. I email 2 weeks later when he's supposed to be back, he emails back telling me that he's out of town for another month, coming back last Monday, Sept 3. THe last check was supposed to be dated Aug 23, so now the whole final 50% payment is overdue. I email him, no response on the 4th. I email again on the 5th. Nothing. I call the hotel and leave a message on the 7th, threatening to lien the hotel. Lo and behold, I get a return call. I am promised by both the owner and the GM that I'd get a check cut right away.

So yesterday I get the long overdue payment of $7500. 1/2 dated for yesterday, 1/2 dated for Sept 21.

So fine, it's not worth bitching about, but I'm annoyed at this point. I hold onto the second check.

Last night, right after I put the first check in the bank at 8:30 at night, I get a call from the owner. There's a problem with the projector. I ignore the call, after all it's 8:30 PM. Today first thing he calls. I grab some balls and tell him that since the bill isn't paid in full, (he didn't ask to post date one check), I couldn't give him tech support until the final check went in next Friday. He was a bit dumbfounded, but understood that I was a bit upset. He said that he wasn't using the projector anyways for a week, so it was OK.

This afternoon he calls back. Turns out there's not really a problem with the projector, but he's not happy with the brightness of the Marquee. So we talk about it a bit, now he wants a digital, maybe 2000+ lumens or so. He asks to return the MArquee.

Now wait a sec. There's been ZERO problems for the last 90-ish days, the pub is open, and NOW that the last payment is due, there's a problem? I told him bluntly that it seemed fishy.

Now, since this place is out of town, I can't exactly run over there to check it out. I tell him the cons of digital, etc, and it turns out that he has some beat up Epson that was part of the old pub system. I'd seen it, told him that it was not worth installing. So I tell him to plug it in and run a video input (non HD) into the input to see how it looks. He calls back and tells me it looks great. (I call bull**** on this!)

So.. what do I do?

1) Tell him that he bought used equipment, it was demoed at the time of the install and he and the manager said it was fine (it's plenty bright in this pub that's in the basement of the hotel IMHO). He's owned 1200 lumen CRTs before, so he knew what he was getting into when he bought it. No refund!
2) Offer to consign it with no commission, but considering it's now been run for at least a few hundred hours (I'm guessing), sell it on the site for say $800 less than what I charged him for it.
3) Take it back in full less the install charges, screen, etc. (to get it back I'd have to pay about $100 in ferry costs, and spend a full day over there to take it out. I guess he could get his staff to deinstall it and he could bring it over as well.)

So gents, what do you say?

[Curt Palme]

I'm going to be as neutral as I can posting the facts here, but frankly I'm pissed... (and most of you know, it takes a LOT to get me pissed.. )

Back at the beginning of June, the 10th or so I think, I installed an audio and video system in a pub that's a few hours out of town. I had done business with the owner before, he used to own a porno theater in town until he shut it down. I'd sold him several CRT projectors over the years, as he ran his place 365 days a year, 14 hours a day. The last install was two Barco 808 sets that were projected on an 11' screen (no stacking or blending) about 6 years ago. A completely putch black room as you can imagine, the image was fine with a line doubler.

The owner was known to late pay and in fact never paid me in full for the two Barco 808s, but when he shut the place down, I got the projectors back and sold them for more than what the balance was left owing, so it worked out (the sets were 14' in the air, and yes, I cleaned the cases..)

Anyways, so he approaches me to install this sound and video system. I hesitate as I'm not really doing a lot of sound any more, but it was going to be a quick 4 day install, and he paid 50% up front. Amongst the things installed was a Marquee 8500 with minty tubes in it, a 5 X 7 Draper screen, and a transcoder along with a cable company supplied HD box. THe overall installation went relatively smoothly, the only thing we ran into was pulling out 100s of feet of wire from old installations, I posted some pix of the place here I think a while back...Everything worked fine, the projector looked great on the HD channels.

Also, my 'assisting' his maintenance guy in hanging the customer supplied plasmas turned into 8 hours of work for me, as his maintenance guy 'assisted' me. So I did spend a few more hours on the job on stuff that wasn't part of my contract.
Now, since we'd used up the allocated out of town trips with the plasma install, I told him to put me up at the hotel for a night, and I'd come over with the g/f and spend a night there and would train their staff on the whole a/v system, a few days before they opened. I never did get the call. He did agree to put me up for a night, no problem there.

The terms of the contract (verbal, although I'd written them into the quote) was 50% up front which the customer did, and 25% net 30, the last 25% net 60. I did tell the customer up front that I didn't want to chase him for the final payment, so I expected to take the postdated checks with me when I was done. (the place was out of town, remember?)

I go to collect the checks, and the owner had gone to Vancouver on the ferry already, so I couldn't get the checks. So I call him a couple of weeks later, turns out he's in Cancun on vacation. Damn, there's the one check that will be late already. I email 2 weeks later when he's supposed to be back, he emails back telling me that he's out of town for another month, coming back last Monday, Sept 3. THe last check was supposed to be dated Aug 23, so now the whole final 50% payment is overdue. I email him, no response on the 4th. I email again on the 5th. Nothing. I call the hotel and leave a message on the 7th, threatening to lien the hotel. Lo and behold, I get a return call. I am promised by both the owner and the GM that I'd get a check cut right away.

So yesterday I get the long overdue payment of $7500. 1/2 dated for yesterday, 1/2 dated for Sept 21.

So fine, it's not worth bitching about, but I'm annoyed at this point. I hold onto the second check.

Last night, right after I put the first check in the bank at 8:30 at night, I get a call from the owner. There's a problem with the projector. I ignore the call, after all it's 8:30 PM. Today first thing he calls. I grab some balls and tell him that since the bill isn't paid in full, (he didn't ask to post date one check), I couldn't give him tech support until the final check went in next Friday. He was a bit dumbfounded, but understood that I was a bit upset. He said that he wasn't using the projector anyways for a week, so it was OK.

This afternoon he calls back. Turns out there's not really a problem with the projector, but he's not happy with the brightness of the Marquee. So we talk about it a bit, now he wants a digital, maybe 2000+ lumens or so. He asks to return the MArquee.

Now wait a sec. There's been ZERO problems for the last 90-ish days, the pub is open, and NOW that the last payment is due, there's a problem? I told him bluntly that it seemed fishy.

Now, since this place is out of town, I can't exactly run over there to check it out. I tell him the cons of digital, etc, and it turns out that he has some beat up Epson that was part of the old pub system. I'd seen it, told him that it was not worth installing. So I tell him to plug it in and run a video input (non HD) into the input to see how it looks. He calls back and tells me it looks great. (I call bull**** on this!)

So.. what do I do?

1) Tell him that he bought used equipment, it was demoed at the time of the install and he and the manager said it was fine (it's plenty bright in this pub that's in the basement of the hotel IMHO). He's owned 1200 lumen CRTs before, so he knew what he was getting into when he bought it. No refund!
2) Offer to consign it with no commission, but considering it's now been run for at least a few hundred hours (I'm guessing), sell it on the site for say $800 less than what I charged him for it.
3) Take it back in full less the install charges, screen, etc. (to get it back I'd have to pay about $100 in ferry costs, and spend a full day over there to take it out. I guess he could get his staff to deinstall it and he could bring it over as well.)

So gents, what do you say?

[AnalogRocks]

Wait for his last check to clear and charge him a 30% restocking fee on the Marquee. That should either give him pause or at least recoupe some of your costs.

Computer stores do it all the time why can't you?

[AnalogRocks]

Wait for his last check to clear and charge him a 30% restocking fee on the Marquee. That should either give him pause or at least recoupe some of your costs.

Computer stores do it all the time why can't you?

[kal]

Take the hard line.

You demo'ed the projector for him and he was fine it with it then. Now he's changed his mind and wants something different but STILL hasn't paid you in full and expects you to come right out and change things? Gimme a break!

Settle the bill first. Then move forward. One thing at a time.

Kal

[kal]

Take the hard line.

You demo'ed the projector for him and he was fine it with it then. Now he's changed his mind and wants something different but STILL hasn't paid you in full and expects you to come right out and change things? Gimme a break!

Settle the bill first. Then move forward. One thing at a time.

Kal

[rabies_70]

You want I should have a "talk" with him, boss?

[StuntDummy]

I say collect your money and walk away. Unless you are expecting big future business from slacker porn guy, it is not worth the headache IMO.

[ronholm]

Well put a lien on the place first thing tomorrow.. Just call his local courthouse and fax them what they need... It can easily be waved, and he may or may not find out if he pays up... Who cares...

I would do that until you have the money 100% in the clear. And YESTERDAY if you could...

He is pulling your leg.. Tell him when he is paid up you can talk.. until then...


If it smells and looks like chit, there is no reason to taste it just to be sure..

[nautikal]

Oh, this is one of the people holding you back from the VA meet? What do you think about putting your contracts into writing for the future? It would solve a lot of these types of problems, right?

[emdawgz1]

settle the bill and walk.

This guy goes to vancouver, then to Cancun and god knows where else, all the while hes holding your cash???


F-him!

[whats6x7]

[jask]

Count me in the majority. get your overdue balance, then for future work all mileage,time and materials 100% prepaid, if he does call-wait a week call him back and tell him you were just on vacation...in whatever town he is in!!

[Dave Lister]

As you said, he has owned or used CRT PJ's before and said it was bright enough when you installed it, he has not fulfilled his end of the deal by holding out on payment.

Get payment in full, wait a week after he calls and tell him you were on vacation in the town it is in (as suggested above) and that you couldn't drop in to help because you were on vacation and after all it isn't too important to you because paying you wasn't too important to him.

[macgyver655]

I would draft him a letter(put it in writing and keep a copy) stateing that the balance was due on Aug. 23rd and is now overdue. Then state there is a 10% interest charge for overdue balances. Then show the new total with the 10% added and state that if the bill is not paid in cash in 3 days you will lean his business or whatever leagal option you have.

I wouldn't raise a finger (except 1,lol) until you are paid, not even if there was a warranty issue. You finished your part of the contract and now it's his turn.You are a business and are intitled to payment for services. Don't feel obligated at all. He doesn't give a sh*t about you, as he has already shown, so why should you.


Do what you need to do to get paid!!!! Then after that decide if you ever want to do business with him again.

[Curt Palme]

Thanks guys! I do have the last postdated check dated for the 21st of Sept in my hands, and I have every intention of cashing it. I'll get it certified at his bank before depositing it.

[Curt Palme]

Thanks guys! I do have the last postdated check dated for the 21st of Sept in my hands, and I have every intention of cashing it. I'll get it certified at his bank before depositing it.

[erikjohn]

Not sure about Canadian laws but here you could have filed a Notice to Owner(within 60 days from contract start) and then you could file a lien against the property if payment is not made.

[Curt Palme]

I can do all that still, but why rock the boat, right? I'll get the check certified next Friday, it he's put a stop on it, I go over to the Island, and rip a good part of the system out.

[Curt Palme]

I can do all that still, but why rock the boat, right? I'll get the check certified next Friday, it he's put a stop on it, I go over to the Island, and rip a good part of the system out.

[macgyver655]

Well, Curt. I can tell your a nice guy and your willing to loose money to make people happy but its not a warranty issue, it's a your getting screwed issue.

Oh, and one other thing. THE BOATS ALREADY ROCKIN AND YOUR HANGING ON THE SIDE!!!!!!

Grab your balls and let him have it.

[Curt Palme]

I gotcha, but with a check in hand dated for a week, and it costing me another $50 to lien the place, why bother at this point? If his check doesn't clear or he puts a hold on it, then I'll go and repo stuff. If I have to make a trip out of town to get my stuff back, I'll be sure to MAKE IT WORTH MY WHILE!

[Curt Palme]

I gotcha, but with a check in hand dated for a week, and it costing me another $50 to lien the place, why bother at this point? If his check doesn't clear or he puts a hold on it, then I'll go and repo stuff. If I have to make a trip out of town to get my stuff back, I'll be sure to MAKE IT WORTH MY WHILE!

[macgyver655]

I wish you the best and hope you prevail. Keep us informed.

[JustGreg]

Arnold is a high powered forum member here now...ask him if he'll have his lawyers give the shmuck a call. Kidding of course.

I've learned the hard way to copy everything and keep a log of anything and everything when in the middle of messes like this. IF you end up in court, (hopefully you don't) paper talks, heresay walks. You want more corroborating paperwork than he has. Copy that cheque before you hand it off to the bank and add it to the folder you've started for this case.
Another thing you should do is what you've already written with your opening of this post; except edit it to get us out of it, make it factual and concise, make it current, close it with exactly what you expect to satisfy the transaction, and mail a copy to him and a copy of it to yourself, both via registered mail. Just don't open your copy. If you end up in court, open it in front of the judge. It will show intent to peacefully resolve the issue without court intervention and more importantly, will be dated.

Good luck!

Greg

[rabies_70]

This was from another type of question, and in US law not sure about Canada, but