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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject:

Well, in Mark's defense he does a lot more than cut down his movie watching. He's got an electric bike for commuting and has mentioned quite a few other footprint-reducing things he does. But he should stick to showing a good example, instead of going nonlinear on anybody who doesn't do what he does. He turns off more people than he converts.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:38 pm    Post subject:

Exactly. Now, enough about the ideologue, please. Let's get back to more interesting things: Arnold's awesome theater and house.

I would also love to read/see more about the whole house and its sustainable design features. I would LOVE to have the resources to do more with sustainability and I'm fascinated by good design. The best I could do when we built our home was 2x6 construction, Icynene insulation, deep soffits with low-E glazing, some passive solar features, and high-efficiency furnace and A/C. I wanted to do HRV, but we ran out of time and money.

I have a good friend that's a commercial architect and very involved with sustainable design - we've kind of gotten hooked on this stuff together. He's a doing a large LEED-certified commercial office building in downtown Des Moines right now.

That reminds me. Here's a funny story about my architect friend and me that you guys might enjoy. It relates to sustainability, home theater, and general geekiness... OK, so my friend was presenting at a sustainable design conference in Boston before the AIA convention this summer, and the topic of the session was "smart buildings". Much of the commercial architecture community is relatively in the dark about automation and net-centric applications, so he was using some examples from residential architecture. As an illustration and entertainment moment, right from his spot on stage, he brought me up in iChat on-screen at the conference in front of the large audience of architects (Steve Jobs keynote style). I greeted the conference and carried my computer with me into my then-dark HT and sat down. He said, "We can't see you too well, Steve!", so I asked him to turn the lights on for me. Wink He brought the browser window forward on the projection screen and turned my HT lights on for me - from Boston - much to the audience's delight. He then asked me a few questions about my system, we said goodbye and he turned my lights off for me - from his iPhone. The demonstration went off without a hitch and was very well-received - lots of applause! Very few people have any idea you can do real net-centric automation and building information on an average Joe's budget.

I'm also pretty excited about this... I've been talking to a company right here in little old Iowa that's coming to market with a PV solar product that integrates with EPDM rubber membrane roofing - which I just happen to have on my house! I'm hoping they'll work with me on the price and use me as a case study or marketing fodder or I likely won't be able to afford it - even with the small grants and loans that are available.

http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/building_integrated/membrane-roofing.html

Arnold, have the architects written up any sort of exec summary on your system? Your post for Mark's benefit was great, but I find myself wanting more and more information... While still fully aware and respecting the fact that this IS your private residence after all.

SC
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perisoft



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:47 pm    Post subject:

We were thinking about putting in a heat exchanger to handle the various buildings on our site, since we have a big-ass field out back. It would probably be pretty cost-effective long-term, but the up front is a bit tough given we'd have to lay some odd thousand feet of pipe ten feet down... It'd be awesome to do, though. One little electric pump, and all the heat you want for free... Very Happy
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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:22 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, I really wanted to do geothermal, but it doesn't work too well for a retrofit in a small area. We'd have to drill vertical holes and it gets real expensive. Payoff would be something like 30+ years at current prices. Hard to justify. But if you have room for a flat pipe field, and especially if you're using propane (much more expensive than "city gas"), geothermal is great stuff.
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greg_mitch



Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320


Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:18 am    Post subject:

ecrabb wrote:

That reminds me. Here's a funny story about my architect friend and me that you guys might enjoy. It relates to sustainability, home theater, and general geekiness... OK, so my friend was presenting at a sustainable design conference in Boston before the AIA convention this summer, and the topic of the session was "smart buildings". Much of the commercial architecture community is relatively in the dark about automation and net-centric applications, so he was using some examples from residential architecture. As an illustration and entertainment moment, right from his spot on stage, he brought me up in iChat on-screen at the conference in front of the large audience of architects (Steve Jobs keynote style). I greeted the conference and carried my computer with me into my then-dark HT and sat down. He said, "We can't see you too well, Steve!", so I asked him to turn the lights on for me. Wink He brought the browser window forward on the projection screen and turned my HT lights on for me - from Boston - much to the audience's delight. He then asked me a few questions about my system, we said goodbye and he turned my lights off for me - from his iPhone. The demonstration went off without a hitch and was very well-received - lots of applause! Very few people have any idea you can do real net-centric automation and building information on an average Joe's budget.


That is pretty darn cool. What control system do you have? I think I should know from your HT thread. The fact that it went on without a hitch would pretty much guarantee that it isn't Windows based, right? Wink

ecrabb wrote:

I'm also pretty excited about this... I've been talking to a company right here in little old Iowa that's coming to market with a PV solar product that integrates with EPDM rubber membrane roofing - which I just happen to have on my house!

SC


You have an EPDM roof? Interesting.

This house sounds like it has integrated about every feature it could. I don't even want to think about the money it cost.

I don't think you can compare this houses energy use against a typical house, since it isn't a typical house.

If Arnold had decided to use typical construction methods he would then be wasting resources. It is very noble to put all of these features into your house without an apparent desire for instant payback.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:55 am    Post subject:

greg_mitch wrote:
That is pretty darn cool. What control system do you have? I think I should know from your HT thread. The fact that it went on without a hitch would pretty much guarantee that it isn't Windows based, right? Wink

Bingo! Wink Seriously, though... I'm running Indigo under OS X. It's a really powerful and robust piece of software written by an independent developer. I used to run it on an old iMac, but switched to one of my old PowerBooks for form factor, extra battery back-up, and very low power-consumption - 15-20w. It's connected via USB to a Smarthome USB Insteon/X10 interface, which control Smarthome X10 and Insteon lights in the soffits, garage, deck, living room, and theater. It's a pretty small system right now, but I'll expand it as time and money allow. You can put together a really nice, very powerful automation setup for under $500. Once the basics are in place, the sky's the limit. You can control HVAC, lighting, blowers, A/V, infrared... practically anything that IS controllable, you can do remotely from a browser, iphone, WindowsMobile device, whatever. Take a little work getting it setup, but high wow factor. Mother-in-law called us at dinner one night because she couldn't find the living room light switch, so I turned it on for her from the restaurant. Wink

http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/indigo
http://www.smarthome.com/2414u.html

greg_mitch wrote:
You have an EPDM roof? Interesting.

Yeah, it's a Frank Lloyd Wright style flat roof design. It's not as great as it might sound if you're into architecture, but it is an architect-designed home, so not an off-the-shelf tract builder home - which was something my wife and I really wanted. I just didn't have as much control over the build as I would have liked because it wasn't a full-on custom home. Some day, I'll build my house the way *I* want to build it... But not until I can afford to to do it right... like Arnold. OK, not quite like Arnold... Maybe like Arnold, but on a MUCH smaller scale. Wink

greg_mitch wrote:
If Arnold had decided to use typical construction methods he would then be wasting resources. It is very noble to put all of these features into your house without an apparent desire for instant payback.

Absolutely. It obviously took real desire, as well as a major commitment of resources to make it all happen. I'm sure it will be worth it in the end, as it will be an enduring example of sustainable permanent architecture - something you can say about only a handful (relatively speaking) of homes in the United States.

SC
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achase



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 113
Location: West Hartford

TV/Projector: Christie 4k DCI

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:09 am    Post subject:

lostmandan wrote:
How many square feet of solar panel would be needed to produce that amount of energy? I would be intrigued to see the equipment used to manage the solar array, tie to grid, etc. It must be pretty heafty!

I look forward to a day where all of the geo-thermal, solar, wind, and other alternative energy sources are easily affordable.

Very cool project, and I also can't wait to see more photos of your project coming to fruition.

Cheers,
Dan


About 1,050 square feet of 230 watt panels are needed to produce that much power. The house was designed from the get go with a flat section of the roof exactly aligned on a true North/South line for maximum efficiency. The picture is of the area today.

The system is three phase to match the house (motors run more efficiently with three phase power). The support equipment is being finalized now, and I will update you when it is ordered.

By early adopters doing "leading edge" projects, it helps bring the costs down for everyone. I appreciate what those before me did, and I'm trying to continue that chain.



PV Roof Area.jpg
 Description:
PV Roof Area as of 9/10/08
Area is approximately 28' x 38'
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 Viewed:  7841 Time(s)

PV Roof Area.jpg


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achase



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 113
Location: West Hartford

TV/Projector: Christie 4k DCI

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:14 am    Post subject:

Tom.W wrote:
Nice to hear from you Arnold ! Now lets concentrate on the HT... Were you able to find that seamless screen ?

Looking forward to the photos ! Mr. Green


Unfortunately I haven't found anything new during the last few months. It looks like I'll go with a slightly smaller screen and more masking until something bigger is available.
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achase



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 113
Location: West Hartford

TV/Projector: Christie 4k DCI

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:44 am    Post subject:

Ridebreck wrote:
Just curious Arnold - are you shooting for this project to be LEED certified? I'm not familiar with LEED for residences, but from what you just described, you would easily hit gold on a commercial scale and probably be getting very close to platinum. Kudos to you, sir. I'm looking forward to seeing additional photos.


About a year ago I had some people come to the house so I could get the project energy certified. I quickly found out that because I have a house with mostly commercial HVAC equipment, they could not handle the task (besides, LEED certification can ONLY be given to a commercial project). For instance, commercial heaters are rated with different units and efficiency scales than residential ones. The residential raters don't have a clue about glycol loop chillers, etc. We tried to get the equipment manufacturers to give us a residential/commercial efficiency 'equivalent', but they would/could not. The certification inspectors told us the house was so "off the charts" that their computer program could not handle the layer upon layer of different materials. An example is an exterior wall that has a brick exterior followed by an air space followed by a sprayed on membrane followed by a 2x8 wood stud construction filled with 8" of closed cell polyurethane insulation followed by two layers of sheet rock followed by a R-13 bat insulation layer between steel studs followed by another layer of Sheetrock. Similarly, with underground areas utilizing 2 inches of foam on the exterior followed by an insulated drainage board followed by up to 24" concrete walls followed by four inches of foam insulation followed by sheet rock, their programs are lost.

Because of the efficiency and the reuse of materials mined from the site, if this were a commercial building then Platinum LEED certification should have been a breeze. Given the above, I couldn't even get 'energy star' rated!!! Talk about a 'square peg in a round hole'!

All in all, it really doesn't matter (as I discovered last winter) when the propane company that supplies the construction company with fuel for the temporary construction heaters informed us that we were using about 1/4 the amount of fuel they had estimated we would have needed.
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Gino



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1363
Location: Trinity Beach, AUSTRALIA

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:47 am    Post subject:

Well done Arnold!
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achase



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 113
Location: West Hartford

TV/Projector: Christie 4k DCI

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:13 am    Post subject: Final Post of the night...

Sorry to have taken so long to get updated photos to you. I'll try to keep up going forward since the theater construction is now finally underway. ALL of the theater is underground, with the lowest levels at 32' below a (planted) ground level. Only the lobby itself is under the house.


HT Lower Level.jpg
 Description:
Under the temporary work platform at approximately the top row of seats.
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HT Lower Level.jpg



HT Lower Level Below Booth.jpg
 Description:
Below the projection booth floor at the stairway lower vestibule (before walls were up).
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HT Lower Level Below Booth.jpg



HT Both Levels.jpg
 Description:
Taken earlier (before stairway walls were up) showing the relationship between upper and lower levels.
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HT Both Levels.jpg



HT Upper Level.jpg
 Description:
Upper level at theater lobby looking at the projection booth with stairs flanking left and right to the lower level. The middle worker is standing on a temporary mid-level construction platform.
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HT Upper Level.jpg


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greg_mitch



Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320


Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:30 am    Post subject:

achase wrote:
Ridebreck wrote:
Just curious Arnold - are you shooting for this project to be LEED certified? I'm not familiar with LEED for residences, but from what you just described, you would easily hit gold on a commercial scale and probably be getting very close to platinum. Kudos to you, sir. I'm looking forward to seeing additional photos.


About a year ago I had some people come to the house so I could get the project energy certified. I quickly found out that because I have a house with mostly commercial HVAC equipment, they could not handle the task (besides, LEED certification can ONLY be given to a commercial project). For instance, commercial heaters are rated with different units and efficiency scales than residential ones. The residential raters don't have a clue about glycol loop chillers, etc. We tried to get the equipment manufacturers to give us a residential/commercial efficiency 'equivalent', but they would/could not. The certification inspectors told us the house was so "off the charts" that their computer program could not handle the layer upon layer of different materials. An example is an exterior wall that has a brick exterior followed by an air space followed by a sprayed on membrane followed by a 2x8 wood stud construction filled with 8" of closed cell polyurethane insulation followed by two layers of sheet rock followed by a R-13 bat insulation layer between steel studs followed by another layer of Sheetrock. Similarly, with underground areas utilizing 2 inches of foam on the exterior followed by an insulated drainage board followed by up to 24" concrete walls followed by four inches of foam insulation followed by sheet rock, their programs are lost.

Because of the efficiency and the reuse of materials mined from the site, if this were a commercial building then Platinum LEED certification should have been a breeze. Given the above, I couldn't even get 'energy star' rated!!! Talk about a 'square peg in a round hole'!

All in all, it really doesn't matter (as I discovered last winter) when the propane company that supplies the construction company with fuel for the temporary construction heaters informed us that we were using about 1/4 the amount of fuel they had estimated we would have needed.


Arnold, LEED does indeed have a residential certification. It is called LEED for Homes. http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=147 It is relatively new, so may have came out after you had the other team over to review it.

It seems strange but commercial and residential are SOOO different that when I have to do anything in my house I have to research it because I have never heard of it before.

The construction you are describing would probably require a commercial consultant to model. This can be quite costly. I would say at a minimum $30k to upwards of $100k depending on how complex your systems are. Most likely toward the higher end. The PV panels add another element to it.

Being a mechanical geek, I would love a glimpse at the mechanical room and any details you could provide. Sounds like a great project. I think I have designed many commercial buildings smaller than this house.

I have two LEED buildings under my belt with three currently in design. I will be LEED accredited next year (hopefully).

Give us more pictures! Razz
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Tom.W



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635


Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:33 am    Post subject:

Simply amazing ! Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:05 am    Post subject:

achase wrote:
An example is an exterior wall that has a brick exterior followed by an air space followed by a sprayed on membrane followed by a 2x8 wood stud construction filled with 8" of closed cell polyurethane insulation followed by two layers of sheet rock followed by a R-13 bat insulation layer between steel studs followed by another layer of Sheetrock.

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
The mind boggles...
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:56 am    Post subject:

garyfritz wrote:
achase wrote:
An example is an exterior wall that has a brick exterior followed by an air space followed by a sprayed on membrane followed by a 2x8 wood stud construction filled with 8" of closed cell polyurethane insulation followed by two layers of sheet rock followed by a R-13 bat insulation layer between steel studs followed by another layer of Sheetrock.

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
The mind boggles...


Now that's built to last! None of this brick/2x6/sheetrock here for a wall. Nosiree. Thumbs Up

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Gino



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1363
Location: Trinity Beach, AUSTRALIA

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject:

Incredible, can you even call this a HT! Wow!
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Z-Photo



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 2749
Location: Huntsville - Alabama

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:06 pm    Post subject:

Thats what I call ENGINEERING.

I can tell that you did not hire an University of Alabama graduate (if there is such a thing) to draw this up.

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perisoft



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:35 pm    Post subject:

Mein gott in himmel, Arnold. When do the tours start? I'd drive four hours to see that in a heartbeat! Very Happy
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Ridebreck



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 943
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:41 pm    Post subject:

greg_mitch wrote:
Arnold, LEED does indeed have a residential certification. It is called LEED for Homes. http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=147 It is relatively new, so may have came out after you had the other team over to review it.

It seems strange but commercial and residential are SOOO different that when I have to do anything in my house I have to research it because I have never heard of it before.

The construction you are describing would probably require a commercial consultant to model. This can be quite costly. I would say at a minimum $30k to upwards of $100k depending on how complex your systems are. Most likely toward the higher end. The PV panels add another element to it.

Being a mechanical geek, I would love a glimpse at the mechanical room and any details you could provide. Sounds like a great project. I think I have designed many commercial buildings smaller than this house.

I have two LEED buildings under my belt with three currently in design. I will be LEED accredited next year (hopefully).

Give us more pictures! Razz


I plan to be certified within the next year as well. Thumbs Up

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Tom.W



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635


Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject:

achase wrote:
lostmandan wrote:
How many square feet of solar panel would be needed to produce that amount of energy? I would be intrigued to see the equipment used to manage the solar array, tie to grid, etc. It must be pretty heafty!

I look forward to a day where all of the geo-thermal, solar, wind, and other alternative energy sources are easily affordable.

Very cool project, and I also can't wait to see more photos of your project coming to fruition.

Cheers,
Dan


About 1,050 square feet of 230 watt panels are needed to produce that much power. The house was designed from the get go with a flat section of the roof exactly aligned on a true North/South line for maximum efficiency. The picture is of the area today.

The system is three phase to match the house (motors run more efficiently with three phase power). The support equipment is being finalized now, and I will update you when it is ordered.

By early adopters doing "leading edge" projects, it helps bring the costs down for everyone. I appreciate what those before me did, and I'm trying to continue that chain.




Arnold what make of solar panel are you considering on using and what is it's efficiency ?

I would love to incorporate this in my future house in Costa Rica ! Smile

Also what type of battery for energy storage. Lithium-ion ?

http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?ch=specialsections&sc=batteries&id=20570&a=

http://www.technologyreview.com/player/08/05/MagChiang/1.aspx
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