CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

gcom007

I've recently found this website and have been enjoying reading through it. Talk about nostalgia...I'm only 23, but I was real into the A/V stuff from around 14 on and got a job helping install it all by the time I was 15 with a local dealer. These CRT's take me back...

So...

Right now I'm in the process of finishing my basement and the home theater is going to be moving down there and a front projector system will finally be a reality for me. I was planning on getting a budget level but descent 3-Chip LCD or a DLP projector. I had an epiphany though in the last couple of days. I have 1600 sq. feet of open space in my basement compared to the rather small (even DLP/LCD unfriendly) family room that's housed my home theater the last few years. Not only do I have plenty of room for a projector and a huge screen, I have plenty of room for a CRT projector. Furthermore, given the fact that they provide a much better picture than all the entry level LCD's/DLP's and they're affordable now, it almost makes more sense to go with the CRT especially considering I have total control over the lighting. I even have a bit of experience setting them up and servicing them from the install days.

My question to you though is this: where do I go from here? I'm not going to lie, once college started I fell out of the A/V world loop and I don't really remember who did what and how well. Furthermore, I'm very new on the modern CRT-aftermarket scene. I don't know what's cheap and what's expensive and again, what's worthwhile. I do know I've got as much room as I need for the biggest of projectors. I know that I want to be able to run HDTV sources. I would love to run 1080P Bluray (I'm content being one of "those guys...") however, it's not incredibly important to me. That said, where do I begin? Realistically I'm still on a budget but it seems like there are a lot of good buys out there even on Craigslist.

Let's put it like this...I will be pretty content spending a grand. I'd love it if I only had to spend $500-600. I'd get by spending $1500 if I was knocking one out of the park perse. That said, would you make any recommendations or offer any guidance on the matter? I'm not in a huge rush and am willing to wait it out for 2-3 months atleast to try and find something great at the right price, but if I know more of what I'm looking for, that'd help. Also, I've read a lot about 1080P on these old models. Some say they work fine, others disagree. What's the reality of the matter here?

Thanks for any help in advance.

Elliot

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

1st advice: post on Curt's board or on AVS, not both.

2nd: Tell us where you are. There may be people nearby who can help. Also, buying a CRT locally is preferable to shipping, especially with a limited budget. You don't want to spend 20% of your budget on shipping.

3rd: How handy are you? Do you need a turnkey solution, or would you enjoy tweaking CRTs as a hobby? Are you capable of doing minor fixup work on a projector if necessary? E.g. are you willing/able to pull boards and send them to Curt if necessary? How about diving into the guts to replace a tube?

If you need a plug & play solution, it's probably not in your budget. Just hiring someone to do a full setup of your CRT could eat up most of your budget. But if you're willing to do the grunt work to haul the CRT, get it hung, learn how to set it up, etc, and you're willing to accept 80-90% of what the projector is capable of instead of the 99% a pro could get, then you can do CRTs on an extreme budget and blow away any digital in the same price range.

Low-end (electrostatic [ES] focus) projectors are available for $500 or less. You could get a nice Sony 127x or Barco 800/801 for a good price. Personally I'd stay away from those, as you'll get a much better picture from an electromagnetic [EM] projector and it won't cost THAT much more. (720p is pushing the abilities of most ES machines.) Good EM projectors include Marquee 8500's, NEC PGs or possibly XGs (though NECs are known for being a challenge to learn), Barcos (can't tell you which), possibly others. See The List for more examples.

Curt (proprietor of this fine establishment) has excellent machines and world-class service, but unfortunately he's probably not in your price range. A known-good 8500 with good tubes from a known member on the forums will probably run you at least $1200-1500. You can often find an 8500 on ebay for well under $1000, but it's a bit of a crapshot and the tubes will probably not be great. You could live with less-than-perfect tubes and save up for an upgrade later.

Good luck and have fun!
Gary

Joust · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:18 am Post subject:

first read the primer. http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTPrimer.shtm

second decide which range you want. http://www.curtpalme.com/Projector_Rankings.shtm

read the primer again to make sure you made the right decision. http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTPrimer.shtm

Ask advice here. Some of this buch are pretty Biased toward their favorite brand of machine.

I have no problem displaying a very good picture on my Marquee 8500 @ 1080p. It probably is not fully resolved but who really cares. I'm not watching test patterns. Wink

I've heard that the NEC XGs are sharper but the marquee gives a better movie picture experience. (that'll probably start some kinda war Smile

) Pretty much all brands are represented by this community , sony Barco and even Ampro.

jask · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 10187 Location: kamloops BC

(pulls grenade pin with teeth,throws it over at joust..........KABLAAAM)

"a better movie picture experience" is the nice safe unquantifiable way of saying "I want to sell you one of these,or I bought one of these"

all the rest is great advice! let us know where you are try to see a well set up system,sort out your budget and priorities and we can help. on a tight budget you can look at the screenshots "pflydphanatc" posted in his" ghetto-ish" thread to see what you can do with a machine that doesn't get a lot of love nowdays. if you want to light up a big screen you might look at some of the "intermediate" machines. If money is no object ...... PM me!!!!
I started out with a PG6+ and did not find the set-up too challenging.As I developed more skills and a better set-up it was GREAT to have the additional adjustment and image control with the PG.It sounds like you enjoy tech toys and are willing to invest some time in getting your HT set up. The biggest problem with used machines is tube condition,when you buy off Curt- or one of the very small group of resellers that most of us would deal with- you are also getting expertise,so-spend now or spend later-but when you buy expertise you can avoid some expensive learning experiences.
Let us know where you are at,get out to see some set-ups,ask lots o'questions-after you read the old threads!,and Welcome to the Best CRT forum in the world.

gcom007 · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:03 am Post subject:

First of all, I am located essentially in the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan.

I'm totally up for the tinkering. Wouldn't have it any other way. I've done lots of work with audio gear and have got solid soldering skills and all that jazz and I've got more persistence than just about anyone I've met. It may take me forever to do certain things, but they'll get done. Thankfully, I do catch on to things fairly quickly though and like I said, I used to work with these on installs so I already have some firsthand setup experience.

I've been digging into the links mentioned as well already but I figured it might be good to get a bit more of a dialogue going as rankings on a page don't necessarily mean as much as genuine human experience on the matter. I'll post more detailed ideas of what I want shortly, but I wanted to atleast get my location out there.

gcom007 · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:12 am Post subject:

I'm also going to assume random guy on ebay with 67 feedback trying to sell me a "brand new" Barco 1209s but in e-mail "refurbished" with all new bulbs shipped for $1500 is full of it as well, right?

jask · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 10187 Location: kamloops BC

I did not see any 1209s listed,do you have a link? if that was within a hour or two of me -I would be in the car for a look Smile

you need to decide if you think it is a scam, ask the seller for a ph# so you can call to discuss,ask if it would be available for inspection before auction end...etc new tubes can mean a lot of thing to a lot of people ask where the tubes came from and how long ago,how many hours on the chassis ,the tubes,etc

Joust · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject:

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject:

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject:

Oh, and qcom, ebay is a crapshoot. Had a call from someone yesterday that bought an as is nice looking BArco 1208 off eBay. Powers it up, only the red tube works. Blue and green are really dim. Spent some ttime troubleshooting, the G and B tubes are dead. $1500 later he'd be up and running, ($750 per tube).

For under $1500 (probably right at $1500 with shipping) you can get into a minty NEC PG or PG+ set from me with no tube wear. Those aren't quite as bright as a slightly larger tube set like an 8500, but they are a good performer, you'd be happy with it and get a really nice pix.

gcom007 · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject:

drice1234 · Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 1309 Location: Allen, Texas

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject:

Another vote for buying from Curt if the money is in the budget.

Like drice, I'm using a screen that some (most?) would say is too big for my projector. I'm using a nice 3500-hour Sony 1271 on a 96x54 WilsonArt Designer White screen. You could duplicate the setup for well under $1000 - probably closer to $500. Everybody who's seen my setup is blown away by it. I have HD-DVD and HD DirecTV Tivo running through a Kimcoder (RTC2000) and Extron switcher, and the PQ is absolutely STUNNING for the money I spent. I'm not kidding when I say there isn't a digital projector for less than $3000+ I'd rather have. I showed my wife a Sony Pearl in a store a few months ago, and she said that other than being sharp, it didn't look as good as my projector. My dad has a decent 720p machine, and even though it looks pretty good, I wouldn't trade him. I just love the look of CRT that much - even low-end CRT.

I'm not fully resolving 1080i (scan lines are barely visible at the screen), but the bonus is that my picture looks just like film. It's not tack sharp, but there are no pixels, scan lines or any other visible artifact to take away from the picture. I sit at around 10 feet from the 8-foot wide screen, and I'm just thrilled with the PQ.

FYI, I'm not ignorant of what's out there. I've been to CEDIA, I've seen a G90 and a Ruby side-by-side, I've seen Art's old G90 stack, I've seen a Sony Pearl... I've seen Barco 909's... 9500 Ultra's. I've been around projectors and projection for a long time... and I'm still thrilled with my setup. Would I like at least an 8" EM/LC machine? Sure! Until I get one though, I think my setup kicks ass - especially for what I spent.

I guess what I'm saying is if it all possible, try to go take a look at some other setups before you buy. You might be just as happy with something you could buy for $1000, as you would be with something that's twice the price.

SC

drice1234 · Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 1309 Location: Allen, Texas

gcom007 · Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject:

How much would y'all pay for a G90 site unseen?

GEBrown · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 729 Location: Denver

gcom007 · Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:51 pm Post subject:

GEBrown · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 729 Location: Denver

I guess I should temper my response a little - clearly a G90 is one of the top PJ's and even if it doesn't work, you could sell parts from it to others here and they would be very grateful.

I don't have much of a budget for my HT, so I couldn't venture into the territory of starting to try to fix up a G90 or retube it. But others have much more to spend, so they might argue that just to get the chassis for a good price would be a good investment and it could be fixed up over time.

But in your situation, I'd say spend the money on a known working set from one of the sellers here on the forum. There will still be plenty to learn, since you seem to like fiddling, but you'll be learning on a known working set and not trying to solve some obscure problem that no one has yet come across.

My (modified) 2 cents

Stonefool · Joined: 24 Dec 2006 Posts: 253 Location: Sweden

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

If you're a dedicated tinkerer/technician type, even gov liquidation auction PJs might be a viable choice. I've bought eight Marquees
from .gov so far. Some provided parts for others. The best ones were sold off except for the very best one of them all, which got
upgraded "almost all the way" and I use for myself.

If you go this route, be sure that you're going to get a few clunkers but you'll also get some nice machines from time to time, too.

You'd only go this route if you INTEND to buy more than one PJ, though, because you probably won't get lucky the first time around.

If you just want to buy one nice machine, the two best ways to do it are to browse the "for sale" ads here and at the "other site",
or to buy from a reputable reseller like Curt Palme. If his prices are above your stated budget, just do this: Can you manage to
set aside an extra 100 bucks per paycheck and live a little more frugally for a while? If so, every two and a half months that pass
gives you an extra 1000 bucks toward a really NICE projector.

I personally would recommend an EM focusing 8" PJ or better yet, a 9" EM machine if you can get the right deal. And you CAN.

Heck, so far I've bought two separate 9500LCs from members of one or another forum, and paid 2000 bucks for one and 1000 for
the other, and both are excellent machines with no tube wear to speak of. And that was a little while ago when their value was
higher than it probably is now. Good deals are out there. You just have to find them.

At the end of the day, the specific recommendations I'd make would all be for Marquees. The reason for this is simple: Excellent
performance, and they're very common. And perhaps most important of all, though they ARE reliable machines, parts availability
is not any problem at all. And as a bonus, Marquees are still being made to this day, in an upgraded form. They've been in continuous
production without any fundamental changes for about 12 years or more now. They've been improved over the years, to be sure,
but a brand new one is very similar to a first generation one. And, I have my personal bias toward them because it's the one type
of PJ that I think I know really well. I've torn them down to a pile of parts and rebuilt them just like VDC builds a brand new one,
from a pile of sheet metal parts and boxes of circuit boards, tubes, and magnetics.

Others will present good and valid arguments for various Sony, NEC, or Barco models, but whatever you choose, make sure that it
is both capable of HD resolutions AND that there's a way to get HD into it. A DVI or better yet HDMI input card should be available
for it via the aftermarket. If there's not one, I would find a different PJ that does have one available for it.

Fortunately, all of the popular CRT projectors are covered now. You can get HDMI input cards for all the favorite PJs these days.

CJ