CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

dculberson · Joined: 05 Jan 2007 Posts: 211 Location: Columbus, OH

I did some searching and a lot of people have had the same problem from using cheap distributor cap and wires. One person said they had the doghouse (internal engine cover) off in damp weather and noticed arcing around the distributor cap. That was on brand new wires and cap from Autozone. They returned them and got Bosch parts and the problem went away 100%.

So, my suggestion would be to check the brand on your wires. If it's something like A1 Cardone or Champion, swap the cap, wires, and rotor. The front wires are easier to do if you jack your front end up and pull your front wheels; you can get to the wires in the wheel well that way. I did them once from under and inside the van and it was a pain in the ass. Then later I was doing the front brake lines, looked up, and saw the plug wires right in front of me. ARGH!

A way of trying to diagnose it would be to remove the doghouse and fiddle with the wires while you try to start it or while it's running. If you see an arc or get a big nasty shock then they're not insulating right and that's your problem. The shock is *nasty* though, these newer cars use a very high voltage coil and it stings like a m-f'er.

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

Sorry for the late reply! Busy, long day yesterday.

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

Hey Phil, I haven't seen you hanging out over at astrosafari.com. Smile

Even though you have replaced the distributor cap and rotor, I would check them again. I replaced my cap, rotor and wires with Napa last year and I had to replace the cap and rotor again in July. The A/S.com guys recommend the brass cap Napa and that is what I used. I will probably go back to Delco or Summit. I bought the Belden wires. FYI, I am having some of the same symptoms so I will be watching your cure. Oh that reminds me, I need to check the EGR valve. What a pain that is to get back on. I cross-threaded one of the bolts. If you take it off, then the A/S guys suggest studding it.

Even with the problems, I still like my Astro. It has 191k miles on it and it needs some work, but it is still running. I am in the process of trying to decide whether to put a V8 in it, install a used 4.3 V6 or rebuild it with a Hiperformer engine. The Hiperformer long block is $1500 with a 7 year/ 100k mile warranty.

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

Eric,

I would replace the distributor cap and wires in a heartbeat, but the fact that it idles good makes me think that can't be the problem. I supplied all of the parts when my mechanic did the original tuneup. He said I bought a sh*tty cap, and that's why we replaced it even though there were no visual signs that anything was wrong with it. I don't know what brand it is, but the cap that's on it now is suppose to be a good one. The wires may be cheap.

I started to go to astrosafari.com, but since I had already described a lot of the problem here and it seems many members know about cars, I just continued here. Maybe I should post a link to this thread on astrosafari.com.

I like my van too. It's got 100K on it and when it's warmed up it runs great. I'd like to keep it for at least a couple of more years, but at some point I might have to give up on it.

I should mention that I hate working on cars. I've done a fair amount of it, but it's because I'm cheap. I was more than happy to pay my mechanic to fix it this time, but $600-$800 later it's still broke. So f*ck that, I'll seek advice and try to fix it myself.

I'm off to work on it!

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

Mine idled ok as well, but at speed I had problems. You may be correct, so I would go to the EGR valve and check it. I know you hate working on the cars (I don't enjoy it either), but these two are easy to check. The doghouse comes off easy enough and distributor is right there staring you in the face. The EGR valve requires removing the air filter housing. It right under the intake in the front. The biggest pain is putting it back on.

I know what you mean by cheap (and you know my situation which has marginally improved). I have done most of my own work out of necessity. Every time I think a new vehicle would be nice, I see how little money it would require to make this one like new. I saw on ebay a 4.3 V6 with 8k miles on it including transmission and everything else for $2k. Throw a $1k in for install and I basically have a brand new Astro. Smile

stefuel · Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:06 pm Post subject:

Wanna try something cheap? Go to a auto parts store that sells Chevron brand "Techron" fuel system cleaner. My wifes Tahoe was having a problem quite like yours. As it turned out, there was a service bulletin about valves sticking under some conditions. The service manager told me that the valve stems were to tight in the valve guides. As natural deposits formed, the valves would stick under a load. The fix was a valve job where they would ream the guides to loosen them up or chemically clean the heads. I chose the Techron route and it worked. Two tankfulls with additive solved the problem. I do it twice a year now just to be sure.

dculberson · Joined: 05 Jan 2007 Posts: 211 Location: Columbus, OH

Thanks Phil, I'm not a pro but I treat my cars like a lot of guys here treat projectors. I have a lot of them and work on them all the time, and when something is wrong, I do a ton of research to figure out exactly what and why. Five cars, ranging from 1966 to 1995, makes it a fun and varied hobby. (If a bit greasy.) Given my tendancies, once I started working on newer cars I learned all I could about fuel injection, sensors, etc. I've even contemplated making a replacement ECU for performance reasons (Megasquirt!) but I never have had one of my newer cars long enough to justify it.

It's very possible for a part like the dist. cap or wires to work perfectly fine at high RPM's or in certain temperature ranges but to cause no end of trouble at idle or in the cold and damp. If moisture is getting into the cap or wires, condensing and causing a short, once the engine warmed up it would evaporate and the short would go away. Unfortunately that's true of wherever the moisture is getting in!

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject:

Somehow this seems appropriate here:

A man pulled up next to a little girl walking home from school and said, if you get in i will give you a lollypop. The girl kept walking. following along slowly, the man said, come on get in the car with me and i will give you two lolly pops. She kept her eyes on the sidewalk and continued on her way. the man said , get in with me and i will give you the whole bag of lolly pops!

Finally the girl turned around and said, LOOK daddy, YOU bought the Ford, YOU ride in it!!!

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:21 am Post subject:

LOL good one. I have a red-neck neighbor that drives a ford. He commented that I own a lot of Dodge's, I told him I have a couple of Chevy's and even a Toyota but I never made the misteak of buying a Ford. lol He walked away.

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:33 am Post subject:

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

Sorry for the late reply! I had a busy week and I got a little bit fed up with working on the van. I cleaned then sealed most of the connectors I could find with dielectric silicone compound. After doing so, it was idling very rough, almost the point of dying. Ran fine, but idled rough. I finally realized it was due to too low of RPM at idle. That's self adjusting, so I thought I must have gotten silicone inside one of the connectors, causing a bad connection which caused the idle problem. I worked on a lot of connectors, including all of the computer connectors. I'm thinking, "Jesus! How I'm I ever going to find where the problem is, and if by some miracle I do, how the hell am I going to clean the silicone out of it!" Fortunately the next day the idle problem was gone and has not returned! Thumbs Up

Unfortunately, the original problem still exist. Thumbs Down

But at least I eliminated bad connections as a possible cause, so it was worth the trouble.

I've spent quite a bit of time Googling everyone's suggestions, and I think I'm going to replace the ignition wires next. I'll keep replacing one thing at a time until it's fixed!

I don't like getting under cars on jacks, and I don't have any jackstands, so I might hire someone to replace them if I can find a mobile mechanic that's fairly cheap (which would not include my regular mechanic). If not I'll buy a set of jackstands and do it myself.

Chip I think I'll try the Techron cleaner too. Couldn't hurt, and it's certainly cheap and easy enough.

Which brand of ignition wires should I get? Bosch?

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

Phil,
I would look at the Beldens from NAPA. They look like they are well built. Others are using MSD and of course Delco. Summit has these.

I mentioned my options earlier and I think I am going to lean to a used engine. S10 warehouse in Bradenton advertises on ebay. They listed a complete engine/transmission set-up in a couple of auctions. One had 8k miles on it for $2k.

erikjohn · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 636 Location: Florida

On a hot dry day when the engine is running good take a spray bottle and spray water around the cap and igintion and anywhere else you are suspect of being part of the problem. Also if you can do this in the dark you can sometime see sparks jumping around. Also a good way to check for vaccuum leaks is the spray carb cleaner around areas of suspect. If the engine speeds up you have a leak, just becarefull if you get spary to close to the air cleaner or intake the fumes will get into the eingine and it will speed up that way and be a false positive.

Just don't spray them all at once so that yo can identlfy the problem area.

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

erikjohn · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 636 Location: Florida

I am not familiar with your particular model but there is plenty of crap that is vacuum operated. Someties it is stuff that creates vacuum when cold and then closes off when the engine heats up. Again use carb cleaner to find vacuum leaks not water, the water is for the electrical and use it sparingly. A couple items from a quick Google are:

Ported Vacuum Switch
Another component that may be a part of your vehicle’s EGR system is a "ported vacuum switch" (PVS), which may also be called a "thermal vacuum valve" or "temperature vacuum valve" (TVS). The switch controls the passage of vacuum that operates the EGR valve.

This device is a heat-sensitive switch that remains closed until the engine’s coolant reaches a certain temperature. The PVS screws into the intake manifold, thermostat housing or engine so the heat-sensing element is in contact with the engine’s coolant. Inside the switch is a wax plug that pushes a sliding plunger to uncover or block vacuum ports in the switch. As the engine heats up, the wax expands and pushes the plunger up until it uncovers or blocks the vacuum port. At this point, vacuum to the device that the switch controls is either applied or blocked. Severe engine overheating can damage the switch, making replacement necessary.

Vacuum Control Solenoid
A solenoid is another device that is often used to control vacuum to the EGR valve. A solenoid is a magnetic coil attached to a plunger that uncovers or blocks a vacuum port. The solenoid vacuum port may be normally open or closed depending on the application. When voltage is applied to the solenoid, the coil moves the plunger which either opens or blocks the vacuum port. Voltage to the solenoid may be routed through a relay or timer and is usually controlled by the engine computer on newer cars.

When used to control the vacuum to an EGR valve on a late model engine, the engine computer will wait to energize the solenoid until the engine is warm and is operating above a certain rpm.

I don't work on cars nearly as much as I did when I was younger but the the two items that I outlined in my first post are just tricks of the trade, common knowledge among jobbbers. Cars have come along ways but alot of the old tricks still apply. I did rebuild a steering gear on my F-250 a couple months back and the master cylinder a month or so ago. I just can't bring myself to pay those high rates for IMO guys that most of the time don't know sh*t. If they didn't have a book and a computer they couldn't diagnose squat. Granted there are some damn fine mechanics out there but there are alot that don't know what they are doing.

jask · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 10187 Location: kamloops BC

these are usually the same ""mechanics" that reach for the code reader first!! there are a whole lot of guys out there that never learned to diagnose a problem and they just look for a code then start pulling and replacing parts til the problem goes away...and they usually try to sell you a waterpump at the same time..." oh yeah, look here,the weep hole on the bottom has some -leakage- better put a new one in..."

rant

rant

ronholm · Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 12111

HEHE.... Did you fix that Map sensor/ vac problem yet? Wink

From god knows how many miles away without ever seeing your van, that is still my guess....

Find it then, test voltage... Turbo doge stuff runs between 1 and 5 volts...

I test with an OTC 4000E... They can be ebayed cheap and gives tons of info in a hurry... (cheaper than replacing lots of serviceable parts.)

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject:

Or you could fix it permanently and buy an import.

<rimshot>

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject:

I remember that worked really well for you with the 'ol RAV4, eh Curt?

Wink

SC

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject:

I knew someone would bring that up!

Yes, nothing but problems for the first 60K miles. Cat converter, water pump, bad computer software, pretty crappy for a new off the lot truck.

BUT... fast forward to 175K miles that I have on it now. No problems since I hit 60K miles. Heck, even the clutch is original, no addition of oil between the 3-4K mile oil change intervals that I do. Can't say that about too many domestic vehicles, at least not the ones I've had. The Chev Safari that has 200K miles on it has been one big POS, no help of course to the hack mechanic that I'd taken it to for 3 visits. Then I switched to the dealer who fixed his mistakes, but I had to take it to the dealer 3X as well to fix different problems causing poor fuel economy. In the 9 Toyotas I've owned over the years, I had to get one towed once when the fuel pump died. I've had to get my two Chevys towed twice each.