CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Phil Smith]

I have a 2000 Chevy Astro van that I think needs a new fuel pump. Delco pumps are REALLY expensive. There are pumps and rebuild kits on ebay that claim to be OEM, and they're a lot less money.

My question is: Should I rebuild, or buy a complete pump (seems unnecessary to me), and do you think the parts on ebay will last?

Complete pump: http://tinyurl.com/25tajh

Rebuild kit: http://tinyurl.com/ywje2e

[emdawgz1]

I'm a belt and suspenders guy. I'd pony up and buy new. Having a fuel pump quit on you is a hurting feeling... i know...

[JustGreg]

What makes you think it needs a new pump? Did you pull a pump specific code? Have you measured the pressure at the fuel rail? I don't know if you've done one before but it isn't any fun unless the Astro has an access port in the floorboards. Kidding but I did something just like that when:

The fuel pump in my Dodge Ram went south a couple months ago. It's also in the tank... under the bed. Rather than drop the tank or lift the bed, I found it easier to go to the junkyard and have a 9" circle cut out of a bed they were doing to scrap (cut from directly over the pump), then I used it to mark the bed in my truck, then cut 1.5" inside that with pneumatic sheers. I replaced the pump, then siliconed the bed cover in place, and had my buddy who owns a Line-X franchise reshoot that area.

If you aren't planning on trading it in anytime soon and it's a primary vehicle, I'd probably bend over and buy the new one just for peace of mind.

Greg

[Tinman]

Rebuild it. The kit IS the actual fuel pump. You won't need to buy the housings and sending unit. The "complete" pump simply includes ALL the stuff the pump itself is mounted in.

Marc

[derfla]

Buy new. and buy the ac delco

[Heywood Jablome]

[Sonynut]

Rebuild it.. if all thats needed is the pump/motor assembly itself, just go to a parts store and get it.. you'll have a warranty thats easier to cash in on if needed that way. Theres no sense in paying all the extra money for the housings/senders, etc. if they aren't bad. I have rebuilt them on about 4 of my past cars, and had no trouble afterwards.

[Tom.W]

Complete pump: http://tinyurl.com/25tajh

WTF ? Not to sure about the e bay parts ... Take Sonynuts advise but use good parts cause it's a pain in the ass to replace on my car !

[jask]

I would check the pressure on the line should be around 60psi I think, and stay there after you kill power to the pump.
Not sure what year your van is but around here these hasd a reputation for being a (expensive)problem pump.I would buy the rebuild kit myself,hope you did not just fill the tank up!!

[ronholm]

I say rebuild... You can "guarantee" that the "new" pump you are installing is tip top that way.....

If you buy new... Fork over the $$$ for the AC delco part... Or check and see if Walbro makes a pump that you can use... And avoid Auto Stoned and Advance auto parts... Napa is the best source around here... The dirty little secret of that business in this area is that Napa is called upon to supply parts to the Auto dealerships in the area a lot more than any of the dealers will ever admit..


Defiantly no on the ebay stuff... unless you can verify a decent brand.. There is a ton of cheap "import" junk floating around the after market on ebay these days.. avoid it like the plague..

Fix it once... it is much cheaper...

[Phil Smith]

Guys,

Since CRT is a tinkerers hobby, I figured a lot of you worked on your own cars and could help on this. Thanks!

Several of you have suggested that I go with new parts. The parts on ebay ARE new, I'm just not sure if they're any good or not. They claim to be OEM. and maybe they are, but I doubt it.

My van has less than 100k on it, and when everything is working, it runs great. In years past, I've alway replace my van (I have to have a van for the work I do) when it got close to 100k. I have the money to replace it, but business is slow, and since the van still runs so good, I've decided I'm going drive it until the wheels fall off.

Over the last year or two, it's been sporadic in starting. Sometimes it fires right up, other times it starts but barely and runs rough, sometimes it won't start at all. It seemed to be an electrical problem, as it didn't seem to be getting any fire. When it first started acting up, I sprayed starting fluid in the air intake and it didn't make any difference.

The starting problem is mainly after the van hasn't been driven for several hours. If it's been running for a while, it will usually start right up.

I've had it worked on at three times in the last couple of years. The first was a complete tuneup, the other times because of the starting problem.

When I got the tuneup, the van had always run flawlessly at that point, but mileage was in the mid 80k range, and it had never had a tuneup, so I thought it was time for some preventive maintenance.

The trouble started 4-6 months afterwards. To fix it, the mechanic changed a small "chip" that's mounted on the ignition coil (I don't know what it is or called). That fixed it for about 4 months, but it slowly started acting up again, gradually deteriorating to the point it wouldn't start at all. My mechanic changed the chip again, and it fixed it for another couple of months.

The last time it broke, I called my mechanic and for a rental car. The mechanic (a mobile mechanic) couldn't make it for a couple of days and my rent car didn't show up, so the next morning I tried to start the van to go get something to eat. I kept trying different thing things to get it to start, and I stumbled upon a method that worked! If I turned the ignition to on, and didn't try to start it until all the indicator lights turned off, it started right up! This worked every time!

I can live with that, so I call my mechanic and canceled my appointment. For about a month everything was fine. It would never start if I just jumped in and cranked it, but as long as I waited for the idiot lights to go off it would crank right up. But as time went on, it got where I had to do to it twice before it would start, then three times, then four, then several times.

What I finally noticed was that while I was waiting for the idiot lights to go out, the fuel pump was running for a short period. I could turn the key on, let the fuel pump run, turn the key back off and back on again to cause the fuel pump to run again. I could run the pump several times without trying to start it so it could build up pressure, and it would eventually start.

This is where I'm at now. It still starts (with great effort) and runs fine with a little miss that's only noticeable at idle.

Initially it seemed like it had to be a computer problem. Then when I figured out how to start it, Google searches seem to point toward the ignition switch. My take on all of this is now: For a very long period, my fuel pump has slowly been losing it's ability create pressure, and hold pressure when it sits for extended periods. It would have started all along if I had known how to start it, like I do now. At this point the pump is barely working and consequently my van is very hard to start. I guess it shouldn't run at all, but for some reason it does.

Why my mechanic changing the chip helped for short periods is also puzzling.

Sorry for the LONG post. There's a lot of history behind this problem.

[emdawgz1]

It could be that the fuel pump is failing and the long pauses are just the pump taking time to build proper pressure....

[CRT_Ben]

Hey Phil,

Well the way to find out for sure is to install a pressure gauge before the fuel rail, and leave it there if you can do so safely. See what it is after leaving the van for a few hours, and if it's low, see how much it builds up before it'll start, and what it is while running. If the fuel pump really has to take 30-60 seconds to pressurize the fuel rail before starting, I don't see how it could possibly keep up with the volume required at full throttle.

Ben

[dculberson]

You should check your fuel pressure, I think there's a shrader valve on your fuel rail that would make that easy. You will need to buy/rent/borrow a fuel pressure gauge for that, though. That will tell you, without question, whether your fuel pump is just not up to snuff. I think you should have CPI (port injection) since it's a 2000, which means you should have 55-62 psi at the fuel rail. If it's TBI (throttle body injection), like mine, you'd have 8-13 psi.

If it is the fuel pump, then by all means try the rebuild. It's a pain in the ass if the pump fails again, but if you liked easy stuff you'd be using an LCD projector. Make sure you run the thing out of gas, or almost so, to make the job easier. You have to drop the tank, so the less gas in it, the lighter and easier it is to do.

If your fuel pressure is okay, you might have an ignition coil that's shorting out, but that's unlikely based on the will-start-after-pause symptom.

Don't dump the Astro based on the mileage! I have one with 270,000 miles on it and it's just now developing symptoms of a bad second gear in the tranny. Other than that, it's been minor maintenance issues it's entire life. They are amazing, bulletproof vehicles. Never all that great from an enthusiastic driver's car point of view (that's mine) but awesome from a tough, versatile, unkillable machine point of view.

A great resource for these vans is the www.astrosafari.com forum. Every time I need help, I go there and find it in the archives. I wish every vehicle I owned had such a thorough resource!

Good luck!

[Heywood Jablome]

Try this: If the van is hard to start or fails to start entirely, cycle the key (off to run, but not all the way to "on") twenty or so times THEN try to start. The cycling causes the pump to pressurize the rail so if it starts and runs happily you'll have learned something.

Also, GM was fond of "pulsators" (looks like a tiny Brake Master Cylinder cover clamped onto a plastic body with a hole in each end and a silicone diaphragm/bladder inside.)

The pulsator is there to function as an accumulator and take pressure variation out of the pump right at the pump outlet. Its' diaphragm could leak leading to leak-back into the tank and low pressure at the rail.

[ronholm]

Yep defiantly stop by somewhere and have them check your Fuel pressure... Or just pick up a guage at your local auto parts store...


You can crimp/ block the return line and see if the pressure spikes way up (try it during both start up and while running)... Be careful over 80 psi or so and you risk damaging the injectors...


But that will tell you whether or not the pump. or the pressure regulator is the problem... ( Or one of them diaphragms..)

[Phil Smith]

I replaced a leaking vacuum hose yesterday that controlls my dashboard vents. Without vacuum, the vents default to the closed position. After 4 days of no air conditioning in the Texas heat, I could take it no longer. So I fixed it--in the Texas heat! Being a van it took me quite a while, and I had to do it on the driveway because my garage is full of inventory. The cure was almost as bad as the ill!

Earlier in the morning I pulled the carpet back on my van's floorboard to see if it had an access port. It doesn't. I thought it over and decided I'm not going to rebuild the fuel pump. I don't have any jacks to lift the van and drop the tank, and I've had my monthly dose of the heat (yes, I know I'm a wimp), so I'll call my mechanic and let him extract some more money from me. He's already hit me for at least $800 for what was probably unneeded work. That's ok though. He's a good mechanic and a good guy. I think this was just a tuff problem.

I'm just going to go ahead and assume it's the fuel pump and get the parts for my mechanic to rebuild it. I'm pretty convinced that's what it's got to be. Will the parts sold at my local parts chain store be good? Will they have rebuild kits? Will the rebuild kit include the diaphragm that Heywood mentioned, assuming it has a diaphragm?

PS: I thought about cutting an access hole like Greg, but it seems like you'd have to drop the tank to figure out where the hole needs to be. Plus, cutting the hole without f*cking up something below the hole sounds tricky. How did you do it Greg?

PPS: I went to www.astrosafari.com . The forum is down right now. I bookmarked it. It will definitely come in handy in the future.

[ronholm]

[Phil Smith]

Ron,

Nope, it was difficult to start this morning as usual. I replaced the vacuum line yesterday.

You know, I think I'll cut an access hole for future use while my mechanic is rebuilding the fuel pump. Now if I can just figure out how to do that without blowing us both up.

[ronholm]