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thewolfman

Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:02 pm Post subject:

EDIT: I thought it was someone else I was talking to needing help.

Last edited by thewolfman on Wed May 24, 2017 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

greg9518lc

Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:29 pm Post subject:

The apokalypto pic is from my screenshot thread Kurts 9500 LCP machine. Now this would be a perfect time for you to illustrate how much better your new boards can resolve 1080P as the planet earth you have posted pretty much look the same on your 9518lc and the Barco 808. For the record my shots are handheld... _________________ VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......

nidi

Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 305
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:15 pm Post subject:

mp20748 wrote:

Lol.. you did a comparison with what I posted (above) and you already knowing my setup is in no way calibrated. In fact, both convergence and focus needs serious attention. Yet the shot you posted if all sharper, it would be barely.. Mr. Green

Now, posting a calibrated shot in comparison to an Un-calibrated shot was done to prove what?

Let me help you out. I knew you were going to do this, and that's why I posed what I did. Close-up facials are not good material to evaluate a video chain. Fact is, they are more like Standard Definition images. High Definition is not really about sharpness in the foreground. It's really when you're able to see complete detail in all parts of the scene. That is why I've been posting shots showing what things look like in the backgrounds and how well the detail is shown in the entire shot.

But still, you've posted a comparison knowing my setup is limping along and would need much attention before being thrown into a competition.

But Mike, you have posted shots from projectors that never where dialed in for over 10 years.
ever since I have looked at this thread, you always had excuses.

now we have someone who has a perfectly dialed in set and those shots look amazing.

shouldn't you finally dial it in. it has been 10 years we are waiting for it.

Michael

mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:33 pm Post subject:

greg9518lc wrote:

The apokalypto pic is from my screenshot thread Kurts 9500 LCP machine

Well, if you have the same boards and setup, why are you using someone else screenshot to show what your projector is supposed to look like...when we already know it's no where near what you have.

Quote:

would be a perfect time for you to illustrate how much better your new boards can resolve 1080P as the planet earth you have posted pretty much look the same on your 9518lc and the Barco 808

If I like so many others who really understand what is going on with screenshots, knowing the process from screen to forum and those extra steps involving the capture of the image from the forum to the screen.

This is the sole reason why only novices ever post and comment on screenshots, because anyone with any real technical understanding on this would agree with me, in that they can only be representative of what's on the screen. The foundation for this, is that most engineers (and there are and have been many on the forums) would never make the statements you guys make or would support any of this nonsense, mainly because the science involve just would never make sense from a technical perspective.

Not sure how many times I'll have to say this, and to prove my point, find anyone who have sound knowledge of video that would agree that a screenshot can be used as a representation of the sharpness of a projector. It's about the most stupidest test or evaluation method I've ever heard of, if used. But of course, there is and has never been any real technical merits for it. There is a slight difference with screen-caps because they don't involve a camera, or any of the other multitude means to manipulate the image...and trust me, image manipulation has been the biggest problem with the camera method and things like Darby and software enhancements. So from our (those in the real know) perspective, a camera cannot be trusted.

Quote:

For the record my shots are handheld...

Who cares!

mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:59 pm Post subject:

nidi wrote:

But Mike, you have posted shots from projectors that never where dialed in for over 10 years.
ever since I have looked at this thread, you always had excuses

They were never excuses. Ive always been clear on why I didn't think it was necessary to have a fully dialed in setup. It has more to do with my understanding on what's going on in the process, so I've chosen instead to use the posting to show a representation of the setup. Again, the key word here is "representation"

And if you think a screenshot can fully represent what's on the screen and trust that they cannot be manipulated, that's fine. But it's not me that would disagree with this. You would have a hard time finding anyone with knowledge of this agreeing with you.

Sure, somehow Kurt has found a way to make screenshots sharper. He's been doing that for awhile now. Over on the other forum and on AVS. There were two Trollers that posted that his shots "were too sharp" and one of those times he had my boards in his projector. On on another time, they were using the Ansiri Blu Ray if I'm saying it right. the same thing happened again. The shot did look really sharp I must agree. But here's the thing on this. If I'm judging and looking for best sharpness, then why stick with CRT. Likewise, how could you determine what something really looks like when there's these single chip cameras involved. And when using single chip cameras and capturing by "hand held" and other non professional capturing that certifies the end results, how could you possible know what's really on the screen?

[/quote]now we have someone who has a perfectly dialed in set and those shots look amazing[/quote]

I don't have to dial my setup in to prove anything. Anyone with a good understanding on things see what the need to see...see, you first have to get beyond looking for sharpness. And when you're able to do that, you'll be able to see why the call me the "Background" guy. And they are right about that, because what distinguises their setups from mine, is that my shots can show an abundance of background detail, whereas I'm never able to see that in any of their shots. Only promises of it happening or I would have to first do foreground.. Rolling Eyes

Quote:

shouldn't you finally dial it in. it has been 10 years we are waiting for it

Why? you know the old saying if it works don't fix it. Why waste time to impress beyond what I believe could not be properly displayed because of the many links in the chain...links that by all means would make for a very unreliable conclusion.

Oh and on the Planet Earth2 Blu Ray. If sharpness is what you like showing, that would be the best proof there is for several reasons. Find me a good background Blu ray and I'm all over it. And since you believe their setup is so good, have them to take the challenge of posting from that Blu Ray.

greg9518lc

Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject:

72hz 195mhz frame tripling no image manipulation [img][/img] vs mp 60hz 148mhz [img][/img] _________________ VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......

mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:08 pm Post subject:

greg9518lc wrote:

72hz 195mhz frame tripling no image manipulation

[img]

[/img]

vs

mp 60hz 148mhz

[img]

[/img]

You still comparing sharpness..Lol..Lol

Question; what if one or the other has a better camera or camera skills, could that be grounds to not consider this dumb comparisons valid?

Oh, and since projector A is supposed to be so well setup and calibrated in comparison to Projector B. Do you have any idea how much sharper Projector B would be once fully setup. I'm really not seeing a better sharpness difference. There's actually too much red to say that projector is calibrated. What ever happen to flesh tones looking like they should

Take a shot of the last picture in that group and post it here.. Mr. Green

greg9518lc

Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:19 pm Post subject:

mp20748 wrote:

greg9518lc wrote:

72hz 195mhz frame tripling no image manipulation

[img]

[/img]

vs

mp 60hz 148mhz

[img]

[/img]

Sorry this is just video chain resolution only and image clarity from a noise free video chain you should
strive for this. You confuse clarity for sharpness. You want sharpness buy a digital.
_________________
VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......

Last edited by greg9518lc on Wed May 24, 2017 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:27 pm Post subject:

greg9518lc wrote:

Sorry this is just video chain resolution only and image clarity from a noise free video chain you should
strive for this.

That's great Greg. I could however explain why the complexions are too red. There's really an explanation for that, when some ask me why your shot are so red. I know why but won't say.

Now with that low noise video chain, why not pop in a NATURE scene Blu Ray. That way you can even help your followers that there is more potential there, beyond just sharpness. Because you really need to do something about that flesh tone problem.

It's Planet Earth 2

Oh and when you get the resolution problem solved, the flesh tone problem will also go away. Here's a something to help you out:

When HD is properly resolved, the color range greatly improves. Because HD has a ton of colors and most of them are played out in greater pastel color range and the abundance of such. That's when the flesh tones are more natural and you're able to see even various shades in the complexion.

..

gjaky

Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:32 pm Post subject:

mp20748 wrote:

You still comparing sharpness..Lol..Lol

Mike please once take your time and circle it in paint why your background detail is so much superior than others' preferably with direct comparison to inferior shots on the same scene.

mp20748 wrote:

Oh, and since projector A is supposed to be so well setup and calibrated in comparison to Projector B. Do you have any idea how much sharper Projector B would be once fully setup?

Personally I have no idea on that, I can only believe what is measured or is shown to me regarding video circuits.

mp20748 wrote:

because anyone with any real technical understanding on this would agree with me

It is just don't seem many of these people is posting on this forum... On the other hand if someone calls you out or questions your statement you convict him not undferstanding the real technical aspects right away...
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB

mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:41 pm Post subject:

gjaky wrote:

mp20748 wrote:

You still comparing sharpness..Lol..Lol

Mike please once take your time and circle it in paint why your background detail is so much superior than others' preferably with direct comparison to inferior shots on the same scene[/qoute]

No sir, I'm not wasting my time on something I've been talking about for years, to include a many other have spoke on this useless subject. And for the same reason you stated below:

mp20748 wrote:

Oh, and since projector A is supposed to be so well setup and calibrated in comparison to Projector B. Do you have any idea how much sharper Projector B would be once fully setup?

Personally I have no idea on that, I can only believe what is measured or is shown to me regarding video circuits

Exactly, and this is what I would expect you to say (and what so many other s like yourself have also said). Because it would be hard for you to dispute or support anything that cannot be scientifically proven or could not have a valid rule of measurement to support it.

mp20748 wrote:

because anyone with any real technical understanding on this would agree with me

It is just don't seem many of these people is posting on this forum... On the other hand if someone calls you out or questions your statement you convict him not undferstanding the real technical aspects right away...[/quote]

tell me what I've been called out on...someone post a shot saying it's better than my shot and I respond by not defending my shot, but instead talk about the non verifiable means used to conclude something that you yourself would not agree with.

A lot of people stopped posting because of the attack post like what is going on here. I've said so many times, why don't they just simply post like others have, and stop trying to defame what someone else is doing

greg9518lc

Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:44 pm Post subject:

72 hz 195mhz [img] vs mp 60hz 148mhz [img][img][/img] sorry fixed _________________ VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible...... Last edited by greg9518lc on Wed May 24, 2017 7:56 pm; edited 2 times in total

mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:50 pm Post subject:

Perfect. do you see the muted colors in the leaves. That would be your first and best indicator that the video chain isn't what you claim it is.. Compare the leaf colors and you'll sl easily see where the colors are being muted. There are other indicators, but first things first. And this look bad is that the projector as said is finely calibrated and it has a best Blu Ray player. Look at the leaves... .

greg9518lc

Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:57 pm Post subject:

greg9518lc wrote:

72 hz 195mhz

[img]

vs

mp 60hz 148mhz

[img][img]

[/img]

sorry fixed

Not much else to say here.
_________________
VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......

greg9518lc

Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:03 pm Post subject:

mp on left [img][/img] _________________ VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......

mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:11 pm Post subject:

greg9518lc wrote:

72 hz 195mhz

[img]

vs

mp 60hz 148mhz

[img][img]

[/img]

sorry fixed

Not much else to say here.

Ok, let me take you to school a bit here. But I'll only disclose a few things in hopes of helping you from jumping out there thinking you're there when you realy are not.

1, take a look over the head of the center guy, and look at the color and clarity of things behind his head (in comparison).

2, look at the eyes and around the eyes for darkness, considering this is a finely calibrated projector.

3, Look at the hue of the green right below the guy on the right, right hand.

4, then look around the image and see how the green fades in/out with no consistancy.

And the wonders of 72HZ makes these things I pointed out better, if the projector is capable.

So now you know. When properly resolving 1920X1080P at higher bandwidths, the real judge is not so much the SMPTE and sharpness as it is the ability to properly define and maintain colors. For that my video chain is a BEAST.

And that's why I'm trying to get you to do NATURE scenes, especially those that are truly like the ones done with the better cameras and better transfer process and none to less processing.

That is how you really find out where your video chain is.

.

mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:20 pm Post subject:

greg9518lc wrote:

mp on left

[img]

[/img]

Exactly.

.

greg9518lc

Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:23 pm Post subject:

mp20748 wrote:

greg9518lc wrote:

72 hz 195mhz

[img]

vs

mp 60hz 148mhz

[img][img]

[/img]

sorry fixed

Not much else to say here.

mp on the left over the head crop

[img]

[/img]
_________________
VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......

mp20748

Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:33 pm Post subject:

greg9518lc wrote:

mp20748 wrote:

greg9518lc wrote:

72 hz 195mhz

[img]

vs

mp 60hz 148mhz

[img][img]

[/img]

sorry fixed

Not much else to say here.

mp on the left over the head crop

[img]

[/img]

Yes, you're making my point exactly

.

gjaky

Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:49 pm Post subject:

mp20748 wrote:

Perfect. do you see the muted colors in the leaves. That would be your first and best indicator that the video chain isn't what you claim it is.. Mr. Green

Compare the leaf colors and you'll sl easily see where the colors are being muted. There are other indicators, but first things first. And this look bad is that the projector as said is finely calibrated and it has a best Blu Ray player.

Look at the leaves...

.

At this point one should pull out the screen cap of that scene, to decide whichever is closer to the source material.
What you are saying here is mostly concern of colour calibration, now with knowing one of the projector's were surely not colour calibrated what to talk about?
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB

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