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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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NASHOU!!!!!!! NICE!
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Guys, it still needs some more work. If i had Ken Whitcombe's skills it would have been done much faster. Plus i got lazy in there and discouraged. Blending is not for someone who lacks patience.
I need to set in Calman the left PJ's 100% standard. then calibrate the rights to match it Hopefully the luminance of RGBCMY match the lefts. That and equal Gamma levels for as many IRE's as possible is the best way to make a perfectly invisible blend .
If TV-One ever writes the program for the 256 point gamma that are just sitting in the FPGA of the units then that would help immensely along with Lumagens CMS. I only did the 11 point Greyscale, Next week i will give a go at 21 point. Only issue is accuracy down low. My i1 Pro is not up to the task. I think i'll switch to
my DIY probe as I tested it at 5% and it at least was consistent. the i1 Pro goes all over the place even at 10 ire. I might have to spring for a chroma 5 for the low end as the Guys at spectracal suggested that as the best solution for low end.
So here are some more from this morning photo shoot.
I have a few more for later 
Athanasios
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:44 am Post subject: |
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Did some more work on the blend. This time the right PJ. Getting luminance of the Gamut, RGBCMY is critical as well as the greyscale for each IRE. Calman 4 really helps out in this regard. What i did was try to match as close as possible the Luminance of the the Gamut to the measured gamut on the left. I wish I had a meter that was consistently accurate from i say 15 IRE and down.
I think this is where i will have to do it by eye.
On this one you can see the Blend zone a bit...
I love the new Radiance and Calman 4 combo!!!
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Whoo hoo...
JB came down on Friday and hooked me up with a new and EXTREMELY impressive screen screen to replace my very small low resolution electric really old screen.
He not only assembled it for me, he provided the screen, and everything that made this great improvement possible.
I'm now seeing an image projected on a large (for me) 8' wide screen and it's BRIGHTER than the small screen.
I had to move the projector back, and that was not easy. But after getting it all put in place, I could not wait to shoot a few shots.
I'll dial it in better later sometime, but even as it is, it looks so much better to me that It's not that important thatit's not perfect at this point.
[B]Full 1080P @ 72HZ [/B]
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:13 am Post subject: |
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The screen did help out Mike.
I did the 10% IRE by eye tonight and then did some zone contrast modulation by eye as well. Next step is to go with a 21 point greyscale. what would really be cool if the radiance had Color Saturation adjustments at say 4 points, for RGBCMY, then you would really nail down a perfect blend zone. It all plays into it. The more control of every CMS aspect the better.
here are a few from Two Towers again after the changes.
And did i mention i really love the Radiance!!!! Just awesome!!!
Love it now, ready to start watching movies instead of greyscale windows !!!
Well almost
Nashou
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:19 am Post subject: |
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Nice! I really have to come down there to see that sometime.
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Boilermaker
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Nashou - That next to last screenshot shows just how well you have done with matching gamma's. The black background at the top of the screen and the white shirt at the bottom of the screen at the same time without any issues is the hardest to do. I would suggest leaving it alone - But I know you won't!
| Quote: | | Nice! I really have to come down there to see that sometime. |
I have to warn you - If you see it - You will want it!!!
Bob
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | The screen did help out Mike.
Nashou |
Yes, tremendously - thanks!
Now I'll need to dial it all in. But Looking forward to it..
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Boilermaker wrote: | Nashou - That next to last screenshot shows just how well you have done with matching gamma's. The black background at the top of the screen and the white shirt at the bottom of the screen at the same time without any issues is the hardest to do. I would suggest leaving it alone - But I know you won't!
| Quote: | | Nice! I really have to come down there to see that sometime. |
I have to warn you - If you see it - You will want it!!!
Bob, you need to get Calamn 4 honestly. the work flow it has for luminance of each color is critical. The one thing i have not done and need to is use one of the PJ's white as the standard instead of the standard D6500k I have to look at which one is the weaker PJ and use that. Since it has a hard time getting it right it is easier to to get the one that will calibrate better to match the weaker one.
All i want to do now is re watch all my movies and see what i was missing in certain scenes.
Bob |
| Mike wrote: | | Now I'll need to dial it all in. But Looking forward to it.. |
Mike what you need to do is use that Damn Radiance you have for the CMS!!!! It will do wonders for the low end detail and then any changes you make while tweaking will show up more clearly. If you do not have calman 4 i suggest you do. it makes calibration so easy with the radiance. If i did not have it trying to figure out what controls to use to adjust luminance would have drove me nuts.
Ani, come down any time, its not 100% yet but its not bad. There are still a few issues with the tv-one units but its way better than when i first started.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: |
Mike what you need to do is use that Damn Radiance you have for the CMS!!!! It will do wonders for the low end detail and then any changes you make while tweaking will show up more clearly. If you do not have calman 4 i suggest you do. it makes calibration so easy with the radiance. If i did not have it trying to figure out what controls to use to adjust luminance would have drove me nuts.
Athanasios |
Not sure what CMS is, there's a bunch of stuff in the Radiance I'm not familiar with. The present settings I have were from Craig. The projector and new screen shows low end exceptionally well. It'll be more obvious once I finish setting up the projector.
The problem is the room for now. It is not completely light controlled - yet. So when I would really want to work on it, there's too much light in the room.
I'm sure however, that I'll wrap my system up including something like the Calman 4.
For once, even my wife has been commenting on the image. And she even mentioned looking forward to seeing movies on the screen.
The incentive is in place..
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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AWESOME SHOTS GUYS!!!!!
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Boilermaker
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Bob, you need to get Calamn 4 honestly. |
It sure would be a time saver - I did 11 top to bottom runs on grayscale for my left projector to match my right using HCFR, so you know how long that took!
I think I'm going to go ahead and mod/pooge both of these XGLC's. I'll actually do one of my spares, and then use it to replace the first one, etc. One thing for sure - I WILL remember to swap the R & B tubes on the first one I do. That is the single most important step, IMHO.
I was going to wait to see what Ryan (nzryan) came up with on mods, but I am getting too impatient.
Do you realize that the 1064X800X72Hz that you are running at uses only 41% of the bandwidth that normal 1080P@72Hz needs? No wonder the picture quality is so impressive. You could use a 120Hz refresh for 3D and still use only 68%!
BTW, what is the blend zone gamma value you ended up with in your TVOnes?
Bob
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Boilermaker wrote: | | Quote: | | Bob, you need to get Calamn 4 honestly. |
It sure would be a time saver - I did 11 top to bottom runs on grayscale for my left projector to match
my right using HCFR, so you know how long that took!
I think I'm going to go ahead and mod/pooge both of these XGLC's. I'll actually do one of my spares,
and then use it to replace the first one, etc. One thing for sure - I WILL remember to swap the R & B
tubes on the first one I do. That is the single most important step, IMHO.
I was going to wait to see what Ryan (nzryan) came up with on mods, but I am getting too impatient.
Do you realize that the 1064X800X72Hz that you are running at uses only 41% of the bandwidth that
normal 1080P@72Hz needs? No wonder the picture quality is so impressive. You could use a 120Hz
refresh for 3D and still use only 68%!
BTW, what is the blend zone gamma value you ended up with in your TVOnes?
Bob |
Not sure how they figure out the gamma formula but its strange that it coincides numerically with
what gamma i decided to calibrate the PJ's to.
I calibrated both Longbows to have a gamma of 2.4.
2.2 was crushing blacks and 2.5 was just a bit to bright on the low end , but that made calibrating 10 IRE
easier cause the probe did a pretty good job. So i went with 2.4 where the low end "looked right" to me .
However i lost accuracy with the probe that low and had to eye ball it.
So i did have a setting of .30 for blend zone gamma but now I had to lower it to .24.
Which numerically coincides with my gamma calibration of 2.4 !!!
Not sure if its correlated or not.
But one thing for sure you can not use and gamma boosting on the low end at all or then you wont get and even
blend zone through out the range of IRE's. With a single PJ i can see where it would be beneficial, but not with
a blend, or at least my blend.
There is still the problems with the "hard edge" of both sides of the blend zone, I wish TV-one would be able to
stagger the fade at the edge so its not a straight fade edge. I think this would work better, but it could be due
to the issue they are trying out for me of why there is a edge guide type line on each vertical edge of the picture.
So it might be due the fact i need to use the projectors side blanking in he blend zone to make it go away.
And that is a rough adjustment so it might not be exactly on the same pixel as the lines . They came to the the
conclusion it is not the edge blend guide lines since it is on all three colors and not just green and red.
Uh oh this became an edge blend post
I should go watch a movie
But its hard for me to do that and not want to pause it and take screen shots when I see something that
really bring out the benefits of blending. I still think Cliffs stack is brighter though, I tried to raise contrast
to 75 , i had no blooming but it elevated the low end to where i needed to lower brightness back down and I really gained nothing in the long run.
But the halos are beginning to bother me after calibration Greg Hoeys 9500LC here in Holland NY, I need to do
that LC conversion!!!!
PS: one more thing, I think it be awesome if there were also an 11 point color saturation patterns and
corresponding adjustments in the radiance. Then then it be the Blenders dream tool for sure!!!
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Boilermaker
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 2.2 was crushing blacks and 2.5 was just a bit to bright on the low end |
Nashou - I think you got this backwards - Lowering gamma will make it come out of black quicker.
I set mine at 2.2 and have been satisfied with it. Also nice to see that I ended up with my TVOne's gamma's at .30. I really think their numbers are arbitrary.
Interesting that Cliff's stack was brighter than your blend. As many times that I have seen and enjoyed Cliff's screen shots, I have forgotten his screen size. Is it smaller than your 12 ft.?
Bob
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Nice Mike, id still lower contrast a bit. maybe 70 is the sweet spot .
Nashou |
I'll be away from the projector for the next couple of days, so I might not get back and try that anytime soon.
One thing for sure, a bright image is definitely not an issue on my setup. For the first time, I'm trying to dial things down.
What I'm liking is how I can take a really dark movie and crank things up to a contrast of 85 and greatly increase the dynamics and punch without blooming.
But for the most part, things look great at a contrast of 63. Which is a good number for the average movie.
I would like to find out how much measured light I can get. But the real measurement I'd want is an ANSI contrast. I think that would be the one that's most important to me for what I'm seeing.
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Boilermaker
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I meant 2.5 crushed blacks and 2.2 elevated them to much. |
That always screws me up. The "gamma boost" boxes don't boost gamma, they reduce it.
I know why your picture isn't as bright as Cliff's stack - I think his screen is 10'. Your 12' screen has 44% more screen area, so you are sacrificing some light. If/When you exchange your tubes to 9", you will be able to have your cake and eat it too!
Bob
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