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winduptoy
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 187
Location: Lunenburg, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Good Stuff Erik! How many pages back did you have to dig to find this thread? Happy New Year to you too Cliff, and thanks! Let's make sure we feed this thread more often. Erik, how can you still be in High School and do all this stuff? You are one amazing dude. Can I give you some feedback/homework? OK.
- If you have grid overlay for your camera LCD, turn it on (helps keep things straight)
- Use manual exposure if you have it, all that black area will fool your meter into overexposing your shots. Try 2-4 sec. @ f:5.6 with ISO set as low as possible (80-100)
- Use self timer
- Cloudy works quite well for White Balance.
-You will find dark content needs about a stop more exp than bright stuff. (Your PJ's dynamic range is more than the camera cn handle.
-Keep 'em coming.
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| winduptoy wrote: | Good Stuff Erik! How many pages back did you have to dig to find this thread? Happy New Year to you too Cliff, and thanks! Let's make sure we feed this thread more often. Erik, how can you still be in High School and do all this stuff? You are one amazing dude. Can I give you some feedback/homework? OK.
- If you have grid overlay for your camera LCD, turn it on (helps keep things straight)
- Use manual exposure if you have it, all that black area will fool your meter into overexposing your shots. Try 2-4 sec. @ f:5.6 with ISO set as low as possible (80-100)
- Use self timer
- Cloudy works quite well for White Balance.
-You will find dark content needs about a stop more exp than bright stuff. (Your PJ's dynamic range is more than the camera cn handle.
-Keep 'em coming. |
Thanks for the compliment. I'm not sure how many pages it was buried but I had to do a "google" to find it  .
Thanks for the camera advice, I've been looking for a "how to take screenshots" info blurb and haven't been able to find one. I guess the first step will be pausing the movie when I take the shots 
Thanks,
Erik
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winduptoy
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 187
Location: Lunenburg, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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You're absolightly root! Camera on tripod, hit pause, wait the longest 3-5 sec. of your life for the pause icon to disappear, shoot using self timer.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Can someone post up some shots comparing CRT to an LCD or DLP?
The pics are all incredible!! Im viewing them on an LCD monitor though, so it aint what it would be. Seeing both would show a good idea of the difference.
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winduptoy
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 187
Location: Lunenburg, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: |
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A few from TDK...
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| winduptoy wrote: | | A few from TDK... |
FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!! 
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | Can someone post up some shots comparing CRT to an LCD or DLP?
The pics are all incredible!! Im viewing them on an LCD monitor though, so it aint what it would be. Seeing both would show a good idea of the difference. |
Nope, it wouldn't show the difference. Your LCD monitor will be the limiting factor as will the camera.
Screenshots are fun and some of these are very good but you need to understand they're useless for comparing colour, contrast, and most other image quality parameters between projectors.
Here's how it works using just the contrast ratio as an example:
1. You have say 2 projectors: A CRT projector with 40,000:1 contrast ratio, and a digital projector with 5,000:1 contrast ratio.
2. Screenshot is taken of both using a camera that has a 4,000:1 contrast ratio
3. Pictures are shown on a digital monitor with 1,000:1 contrast ratio
End result is that you've crushed the difference in contrast ratio as all you see is 1,000:1 for both.
No camera has the contrast ratio (called f-stops) available to show what a high contrast ratio projector can do. It's not possible without having to resort to doing some extreme tricks like taking 20 photos at various exposures and combining them in Photoshop.
The camera workflow and digital monitor would also have to be properly calibrated to make sure the colours show up as they do on the original projectors. The monitor is typically never calibrated by most people and may have a reduced colour gamut to begin with. And typically only pro photographers will properly calibrate their digital photography workflow. Most people just point the camera and shoot in automatic mode. You would have to shoot in RAW mode instead of JPEG (advanced cameras only) and correctly (manually) develop the photos using a correct process.
Then there's the fact that a camera's auomatic metering (exposure) will typically work and make the darker areas BLACK resulting in fake or incorrect black levels. In other words, all digital projectors will appear to have the inkiest blacks possible which isn't always true.
Then there's the fact that all digital cameras add some degree of sharpening to the image by the nature of how digital cameras work. This is not an 'unnatural' sharpening. It's simply required to get a picture out of the camera. All digital cameras do this from $10 to $10,000. How much sharpening does it add? If you shoot in JPEG mode you can't know. You'd have to shoot in RAW mode and than manually add the right amount of sharpening so that the resulting image is the same 'sharpness' as the original projector. How much is that? How do you measure that? Pro photographers know how to control the sharpening to get what the need. We don't.
Again, screenshots are fun but they're useless for comparing colour, contrast, and most other image quality parameters between projectors.
Here's a couple of analogies: Trying to compare projectors using screenshots makes as much sense as calling up a stereo store and asking them to play various sets of speakers over the phone so that you can decide "which sounds better". Or commercials on television that advertise a new TV that shows you how bright and nice the colours on the new TV look (as displayed through your old TV).
See what I mean? It's completely illogical.
Kal
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree with Kal that the camera can do some tricky things to what we are actually seeing on screen. I was home yesterday bored with nothing better to do so I took a few screenshots. My camera always creates this splotchy grain type effect for some reason. The image I'm seeing on screen is much better but aspects of these pictures are close to the actual image.
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"Coffee is for Closers."
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | Great shots!
Kal |
Yes! They are just getting better and better these days. I'm loving it!
Cliffy
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winduptoy
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 187
Location: Lunenburg, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:09 am Post subject: |
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Have any of you watched The Pixar Story on the nd disc of the Wall-E Blu-ray? There are a few clips of earlier Pixar films in HD. Here's hoping they release a few this year...
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | Can someone post up some shots comparing CRT to an LCD or DLP?
The pics are all incredible!! Im viewing them on an LCD monitor though, so it aint what it would be. Seeing both would show a good idea of the difference. |
Nope, it wouldn't show the difference. Your LCD monitor will be the limiting factor as will the camera.
Screenshots are fun and some of these are very good but you need to understand they're useless for comparing colour, contrast, and most other image quality parameters between projectors.
Here's how it works using just the contrast ratio as an example:
1. You have say 2 projectors: A CRT projector with 40,000:1 contrast ratio, and a digital projector with 5,000:1 contrast ratio.
2. Screenshot is taken of both using a camera that has a 4,000:1 contrast ratio
3. Pictures are shown on a digital monitor with 1,000:1 contrast ratio
End result is that you've crushed the difference in contrast ratio as all you see is 1,000:1 for both.
No camera has the contrast ratio (called f-stops) available to show what a high contrast ratio projector can do. It's not possible without having to resort to doing some extreme tricks like taking 20 photos at various exposures and combining them in Photoshop.
The camera workflow and digital monitor would also have to be properly calibrated to make sure the colours show up as they do on the original projectors. The monitor is typically never calibrated by most people and may have a reduced colour gamut to begin with. And typically only pro photographers will properly calibrate their digital photography workflow. Most people just point the camera and shoot in automatic mode. You would have to shoot in RAW mode instead of JPEG (advanced cameras only) and correctly (manually) develop the photos using a correct process.
Then there's the fact that a camera's auomatic metering (exposure) will typically work and make the darker areas BLACK resulting in fake or incorrect black levels. In other words, all digital projectors will appear to have the inkiest blacks possible which isn't always true.
Then there's the fact that all digital cameras add some degree of sharpening to the image by the nature of how digital cameras work. This is not an 'unnatural' sharpening. It's simply required to get a picture out of the camera. All digital cameras do this from $10 to $10,000. How much sharpening does it add? If you shoot in JPEG mode you can't know. You'd have to shoot in RAW mode and than manually add the right amount of sharpening so that the resulting image is the same 'sharpness' as the original projector. How much is that? How do you measure that? Pro photographers know how to control the sharpening to get what the need. We don't.
Again, screenshots are fun but they're useless for comparing colour, contrast, and most other image quality parameters between projectors.
Here's a couple of analogies: Trying to compare projectors using screenshots makes as much sense as calling up a stereo store and asking them to play various sets of speakers over the phone so that you can decide "which sounds better". Or commercials on television that advertise a new TV that shows you how bright and nice the colours on the new TV look (as displayed through your old TV).
See what I mean? It's completely illogical.
Kal |
Yes i understand all that Kal, and while i agree, i reckon there will still be a notible difference, as my screen shots below might show.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Wow big square pixels on that game! Is that the games graphics or the projector?
_________________
Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | I have to agree with Kal that the camera can do some tricky things to what we are actually seeing on screen. I was home yesterday bored with nothing better to do so I took a few screenshots. |
Nice job!
| winduptoy wrote: | | Have any of you watched The Pixar Story on the nd disc of the Wall-E Blu-ray? There are a few clips of earlier Pixar films in HD. Here's hoping they release a few this year... |
Ooh... thanks for the tip. I wanna see Sully's blue fur in Blu-ray quality. 
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | Wow big square pixels on that game! Is that the games graphics or the projector? |
Tis old mate yes, King of Fighters 95 on the NEO-GEO (on an MVS 4 slotter board with the RGBHV output), so the res wont be real flash. The projector for that shot was a Mitsubishi. The other shots are on an Epson EMP-S4 @576i for the first 2 and Epson EMP-S5 @ 1280x1024 60Hz for the 3rd shot.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:15 am Post subject: |
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Ohh yeah the NEO-GEO. My friends brother has one. He loves it. I missed out on the clearance sale buy a day. The local sotes blew those and one other system from that era out for cheap...... Ohhh I remember the 3DO
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Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | Ohh yeah the NEO-GEO. My friends brother has one. He loves it. I missed out on the clearance sale buy a day. The local sotes blew those and one other system from that era out for cheap...... Ohhh I remember the 3DO |
Indeed sir, i was playing Star Fighter on the 3DO last night. I can take some screen shots of both console's games later on if i think of it, as well as some PC games.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:33 am Post subject: |
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I always prefered Colecovision  Yes let's see some of the old school game shot's
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HD done right!
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | I always prefered Colecovision Yes let's see some of the old school game shot's |
Roger that Jeremy, i dont have a Colecovision, lowest i have is a Master System. Ill do some later on, its coming up to middle of the day here
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Got one. See this thread. Let's continue the conversation there: Old school video game's
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HD done right!
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