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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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72hz 195mhz different exposure no image manipulation
[img]
vs
mp 60hz 148mhz
[/img] [/img]
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Last edited by greg9518lc on Wed May 24, 2017 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | Perfect. do you see the muted colors in the leaves. That would be your first and best indicator that the video chain isn't what you claim it is..
Compare the leaf colors and you'll sl easily see where the colors are being muted. There are other indicators, but first things first. And this look bad is that the projector as said is finely calibrated and it has a best Blu Ray player.
Look at the leaves...
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At this point one should pull out the screen cap of that scene, to decide whichever is closer to the source material.
What you are saying here is mostly concern of colour calibration, now with knowing one of the projector's were surely not colour calibrated what to talk about? |
No sir. This is not speculation on my part. The green in that scene would and should be consistent. And unlike a screencap, which should also have consistency, a CRT projector would do much better, even over a digital hear.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| greg9518lc wrote: | 72hz 195mhz different exposure no image manipulation
[img]
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mp 60hz 148mhz
[/img][/img] |
Now you gonna make me point out some more stuff so behave..
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| greg9518lc wrote: | 72hz 195mhz different exposure no image manipulation
[img]
vs
mp 60hz 148mhz
[/img][/img] |
nothing more to say
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Okay Mike - what am I supposed to be seeing exactly? I have no horse in this race so if you want to take it to the PM's, I'm game for that too.  The 72hz image looks a bit darker than the mp 60hz image, and that's really the only difference I can see (of course, sans the color difference, which - while I think yours is prettier, I don't know what the reference is so I cannot say which one is more correct).
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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72hz 195mhz different camera exposure
[img]
vs
mp 60hz 148mhz
[/img]
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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mp on left
[img] [/img]
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| jbltecnicspro wrote: | | Okay Mike - what am I supposed to be seeing exactly? I have no horse in this race so if you want to take it to the PM's, I'm game for that too. The 72hz image looks a bit darker than the mp 60hz image, and that's really the only difference I can see (of course, sans the color difference, which - while I think yours is prettier, I don't know what the reference is so I cannot say which one is more correct). |
Read below and look at the difference that I pointed out (numbered 1 - 4). Greg seems to be still looking at the sharpness, when I've been saying so many times before this, that there's a lot more to properly resolving the bandwidth than sharpness. And if this does not help, shoot me a PM.
| greg9518lc wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | greg9518lc wrote: | | greg9518lc wrote: | 72 hz 195mhz
[img]
vs
mp 60hz 148mhz
[img][img][/img]
sorry fixed |
Not much else to say here. |
Ok, let me take you to school a bit here. But I'll only disclose a few things in hopes of helping you from jumping out there thinking you're there when you realy are not.
1, take a look over the head of the center guy, and look at the color and clarity of things behind his head (in comparison).
2, look at the eyes and around the eyes for darkness, considering this is a finely calibrated projector.
3, Look at the hue of the green right below the guy on the right, right hand.
4, then look around the image and see how the green fades in/out with no consistancy.
And the wonders of 72HZ makes these things I pointed out better, if the projector is capable.
So now you know. When properly resolving 1920X1080P at higher bandwidths, the real judge is not so much the SMPTE and sharpness as it is the ability to properly define and maintain colors. For that my video chain is a BEAST.
And that's why I'm trying to get you to do NATURE scenes, especially those that are truly like the ones done with the better cameras and better transfer process and none to less processing.
That is how you really find out where your video chain is.
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mp on the left over the head crop
[img] [/img] |
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| greg9518lc wrote: | mp on left
[img][/img] |
I am looking for details not sharpness. You want sharpness buy a digital.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| greg9518lc wrote: | | greg9518lc wrote: | mp on left
[img][/img] |
I am looking for details not sharpness. You want sharpness buy a digital. |
There is neither detail or sharpness there, and that may be the problem with the source itself. No way of really knowing, because neither shot is that clearly delineated.
But for sure, a more clearer image would also mean nothing. When there are other areas that are deficient. Sharpness takes second place when properly evaluating for proper bandwidth performance, because sharpness can be enhanced using various external means, but in no way could be considered proper bandwidth. that's why it's important to know the various other indicators.
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:08 am Post subject: |
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9518lc no enhancements apocolypto has been covered
[/img]
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gregstv
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 628
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:17 am Post subject: |
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I think there is something wrong with my camera. All grays turn out with a blue tint.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| greg9518lc wrote: | 9518lc no enhancements apocolypto has been covered
[/img] |
Is this another example of sharpness, because there are some of the same problem ares that was pointed out previously, still present here.
Again, look at the darkness right above and around the eyes. That, as well as, the eye balls not being clear white, and the glossiness in the whites of the eyeballs, would indicate something is wrong. In close-up facial scenes the goal is to always capture the whites in the eyes if possible. Sometimes the eyes will show some slight red that would be there in the original, but they should never be very glossy. And sometimes there will be a slight amount of gloss, the whites in the eyes should still be more prevalent however.
Also and again, the shot is too dark, where as there is darkness on both side of the face, and that is usually the case when the darkness is also noticeable above and around the eyeballs, that really shouldn't be there especially on a calibrated setup.
Also, when there are bandwidth and source issues, the image will loose the natural hues like the finer pastels and the facial complexions. They always tilt towards pink or red for some reason, and are more common on Digital Technology. CRT having a more film like produced image, when done right allows for a ton of facial tones and a variance of finer shades in almost every color range. That is why Nature and Natural stuff looks so good on CRT, and is the main reason to go after the abundance of color range in High Bandwidth HD.
These of course are more critical viewing goals, that when posting shots some years back, you would get PM's from experts walking you through these visual experiences and what to look for.
My color probe is older and most likely would be out of range. But tonight I'll give it try to do a better color balance. And with me having my better Blu Ray back being directly connected to the projector. I'll pop in that Planet Earth2 in hopes to show those colors and ranges of colors that are on that disk, but these are colors beyond the Primaries, so don't be looking so much after reds popping off the screen. I don't use a RED C element, because I'm more into pastels and those finer colors that brings Pop and vibrancy to facial tones and natural elements.
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gregstv
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 628
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:54 am Post subject: |
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A few more. I will try a different Camera on the weekend.
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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72hz 195mhz calibrated
[img] [/img]
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racerxnet
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 362
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Greg,
Just curious about the posting of the jungle kid pictures. You have on with Red push and another at the bottom here with a Green push. I thought that your PJ has been calibrated throughout the posting process? So what has caused one picture to look quite different? Were the prior pics not calibrated?
I do think your shots look really good though.
MAK
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| racerxnet wrote: | Greg,
Just curious about the posting of the jungle kid pictures. You have on with Red push and another at the bottom here with a Green push. I thought that your PJ has been calibrated throughout the posting process? So what has caused one picture to look quite different? Were the prior pics not calibrated?
I do think your shots look really good though.
MAK |
Mak this not from my projector but a roughly Setup 9500 that was calibrated this morning.. Still need mecanical and electrical attention to get up to speed.
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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gregtv, what projector are you taking pictures of?
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racerxnet
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 362
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| greg9518lc wrote: | | racerxnet wrote: | Greg,
Just curious about the posting of the jungle kid pictures. You have on with Red push and another at the bottom here with a Green push. I thought that your PJ has been calibrated throughout the posting process? So what has caused one picture to look quite different? Were the prior pics not calibrated?
I do think your shots look really good though.
MAK |
Mak this not from my projector but a roughly Setup 9500 that was calibrated this morning.. Still need mecanical and electrical attention to get up to speed. |
Greg,
You can just say this shot is from Kurts projector. I don't think anyone will say any nasty words on the matter.
MAK
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| racerxnet wrote: | | greg9518lc wrote: | | racerxnet wrote: | Greg,
Just curious about the posting of the jungle kid pictures. You have on with Red push and another at the bottom here with a Green push. I thought that your PJ has been calibrated throughout the posting process? So what has caused one picture to look quite different? Were the prior pics not calibrated?
I do think your shots look really good though.
MAK |
Mak this not from my projector but a roughly Setup 9500 that was calibrated this morning.. Still need mecanical and electrical attention to get up to speed. |
Greg,
You can just say this shot is from Kurts projector. I don't think anyone will say any nasty words on the matter.
MAK |
Well Mak: I and MP uses kurts projectors to post shots from but I payed for mine.
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