CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject:

Untill last year I never owned a stand alone DVD player. I grabbed one to go on vacation with. The PQ is terible as compared to the HTPC. I built my first one in 1997 for watching DVD and I built my last one to do digital cable, ATSC OTA, DVD and soon HD-DVD.

I can see where a stand alone player is handy but how can I twaek it to make it better?

I've spent nights tweaking my HTPC and ended up with a stunning picture.

Once it's working, and working well you can have hours of trouble free use. But, when something goes wrong it's a PITA. Then you have an excuse to upgrade.

10 year card carring member of the HTPC gang.

oliverg · Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:57 pm Post subject:

[quote="Phil Smith"]

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:28 am Post subject:

Good point oliverg,

You are right. I never had the inclination to buy a first gen top of the line DVD player at $2200 ( Pioneer ) My cheap out was to build a 200Mhz/32mb ram/2x DVD ROM, computer and put a Real Magic card in it. Total cost about $900 and I could play games and do internet stuff.

So other than in a retail store I haven't seen a real nice DVD/ scaller set up. However dropping that kind of coin on something that only does one thing ( DVD ) was just not making sense to me when the HTPC could do so much more.

Just curios how much the seperate DVD/ processor was as compared to the HTPC you mentioned?

oliverg · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:36 am Post subject:

"I paid WAY more for my HTPC than components would have cost."

I doubt that, my SD DVD player was $3600 by itself. My BR player was $1100. My processor was 3k. And so on. You are missing the point in my OP - if money was no object, would you prefer a super high end appliance setup or would you honestly prefer a top end HTPC?

I'm not saying that any of the HTPC setups are bad either - there's nothing wrong with your setup although it wouldn't be capable of 1080p.

Crushed blacks and whites aside, the PQ isn't as good as high end appliances. That's not to say that if your happy with it, great Smile

But as I stated, try a double blind test with some good gear (not a $99 generic DVD player) and you wont be able to deny the difference.

oliverg · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:47 am Post subject:

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:58 am Post subject:

Honestly no. I coulnd't say that. As I said I don't have a big enough point of reference.

Ease of operation for the WAF/GFAF then I'd say it's easier (most ) of the time to train them to put a disk in an select the correct input than to boot HTPC, put disk in wait for software to launch get mose/keyboard, select play.

However that was the nice thing about the hardware DVD card. I never had to see the desktop and the thing had an RS-232 based IR remote. So I could hit power, open the DVD drawer and put the disk in. I had the software start with windows 95 and all I had to do was select S-video on the old set and hit enter on the DVD remote.

If money was not a factor I'd have to audition- very carefully- both options to see what the +'s and -'s were.

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

oliverg,

No I've never owned a high-end DVD player or scaler. But I'm not convinced you've ever owned a good performing HTPC.

When you used FFDShow, how did you configure it? What is your current DVD player software configuration?

Too bad your half way around the world. I think my HTPC would fair quite well in a shootout with your high end gear.

oliverg · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:44 am Post subject:

Mark_A_W · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:06 am Post subject:

My HTPC cost a fraction of the numbers talked about here. And it's probably 90% as good.

You guys are nuts!

Anyway, why talk about DVD? DVD is over. (But Theatertek doesn't look anywhere near as good as the Dscaler decoder).

My HTPC is has all my HD ripped to it. I only need once source, and no scaler. It does everything I need and cost bugger all - it's all second hand.

And if you are using an 8 series Nvidia card, how do you get custom resolutions? Without custom resolutions, you haven't optimised the resolution for the display.

Anyway, I'm just a cheap bastard.

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:14 am Post subject:

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

Mark_A_W · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:45 am Post subject:

Yeah, I didn't get the storage comment either.

USB1 is fast enough for DVD, USB2 and better is fast enough for HD-DVD, etc, as is 100mbit network. So just about anything is good enough.

It's a PC for watching movies on, not a mission critical server.

Axatax · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:55 am Post subject:

Good hardware selection is only one part of the equation - proper configuration is the other half (and far more involved). All the flexibility the HTPC affords requires some expertise in not just computers, but video concepts as well, and the merging of the two.

Phil Smith · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 7717

oliverg · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject:

With storage mediums, (after capacity) latency and throughput are the two most important aspects of HTPC - especially when you are doing HD like 1080p. You need instant (much quicker than USB) access and you also need to be able to throw data down the line uninterupted and in bulk. USB (or even FW) drives don't have direct access to CPU cycles and are way down the chain in priority. They also hog way more CPU cycles than a device sitting right on the bus. They are fine for nearline storage but shouldn't be used for anything other than archiving.

You need a LOT of 'grunt' (storage wise and CPU wise) to display 1080p and keep it smooth. When you start playing around with HD, you will notice very quickly that USB or even Firewire is completely inadequate as a direct access medium (online storage). I'm not trying to be insulting, just trying to answer your questions

As for 'putting your pc down' - I was only responding to your comment that I haven't experienced a good HTPC. I didn't understand how you could make such a statement when your PC was in many aspects, a whole generation and in some areas 3 generations behind what I have.

In regard to custom res - my last HTPC had a Radeon 9800 pro and PS was my friend Smile

Its not vital though and you can get along without it, very well. Especially if using an external scaler.

Kind regards

Mark_A_W · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject:

Bollocks.

I can play 1080i HD TS files straight off a USB2 drive with no stutter problems whatsover (thanks to reclock and the dscaler 1080i IVTC decoder).

I haven't tried HD-DVD over USB2, as they are on a SATA drive I plug into rear Sata leads on my PC, or run over the 100mbit network, but 1080i TS files are fine over USB2.

As for CPU, I haven't tried Bluray yet, but HD-DVD barely makes my Opteron 165 (at 2.4ghz) sweat, without any video acceleration at all. The smooth playback comes from Reclock, not grunt.

I think you are overcomplicating things...

oliverg · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:46 pm Post subject:

Mark_A_W · Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:55 pm Post subject:

No, 1080i 60hz + IVTC = 1080p 24. It's the FRICKIN SAME THING.

And with inefficient mpeg2 encoding, files sizes can approach 25gb - same size as HD-DVD.

So the file size is the ~same, the playback is the ~same, so the data rate is the same/similar.

But sorry, I guess I'm no expert...obviously, I just have it working fine.