CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[garyfritz]

Assuming you mean NX9, not N9 -- JVC says 100k:1 native, 1,000,000:1 dynamic. And with digitals that's normally the ANSI number.

[General BB]

[opv]

[kal]

[kal]

[garyfritz]

I agree 100%. My CRTs were never professionally calibrated, but I tweaked with them a lot to try to get the best picture. I found that when I set them "right," with gamma of 2.2 or so and fade-to-black at IRE0, I did indeed get great blacks. BUT I lost a tremendous amount of shadow detail. Since, as Kal said, real fade-to-black is pretty rare, I chose to sacrifice perfect blacks so I wasn't straining to see what was happening in the much-more-frequent dark scenes.

And yes, ANSI contrast is huge. Many scenes get much better depth and realism when you don't have light bleeding from bright areas into dark areas. My JVC RS45 has 50k:1 native contrast but I don't know the ANSI contrast. I know it's significantly better than my (mostly air-coupled) CRTs.

[ElTopo]

I don't miss any shadow details at all.

With brand new tubes and a batcave CRT is amazing !

Most important of all is the filmlike look and motion with CRT witout any tricks like field interpolation.

@Kal: You ever had a 9 inch CRT in action in your cinema ? A 9 inch is another level.





ElTopo

[kal]

You’re detracting from my original question. A 9” LC machine doesn’t somehow break the laws of physics and allow for ANSI contrast ratios that are on par with the best digitals. To each their own but I’d rather have better ANSI contrast (apparent all the time) than better fade to black (rarely apparent). That was my point.

Kal

[kal]

You’re detracting from my original question. A 9” LC machine doesn’t somehow break the laws of physics and allow for ANSI contrast ratios that are on par with the best digitals. To each their own but I’d rather have better ANSI contrast (apparent all the time) than better fade to black (rarely apparent). That was my point.

Kal

[pureaudio]

The best CRT LC machines will struggle to get 100:1 ansi contrast, on top of that they scatter much more light into the room, so you need significantly better room treatment to get anywhere near that on screen.
The worse JVC samples start off around 100:1 and up to around 250:1, ill guess the RS56 have around 170:1, that is a visible improvement to the perceived image contrast.
Only CRT running 72hz have a motion benefit, but loos some resolution capability with that high pixel clock.
A perfect CRT with a perfect 2.4 gamma displaying all the low levels 17-18-19-20 and so on, where they also follow the gamma curve will look better in a few scenes / movies, like the dark Harry Potter scenes, most CRT will however loos a lot of low level information as they clip black to preserve the high contrast, in most cases CRT will not have higher contrast than a good JVC when having to display the low levels right.
JVC improved motion with the RS4910 and forward, if you dont use the eshift, and specially that generation had very nice on off contrast, not unlikely to get around 50000:1 on a 100" screen, which is around the max size for CRT with a neutral gain screen.
I have seen good G90 Barco 909 and Marquee 9500, and a lot of ones that was worse than bad, same can be said about JVC projectors, there is horrible samples that should have been returned, and just as many horrible pro calibrations that should never have been done.
Point is if you really want to compare, you will need to be completely in control of both setup, dont judge a CRT or a Digital you have no clue how is setup and running.

[kal]

I've certainly very much enjoyed both (CRT and digital) and have always been careful to set up and calibrate both to get the most out of the units. Everyone has different likes/needs so in both cases I always purchased units that met those needs. Someone else's needs may be different.

That said, I find the comparisons of digital to CRT a bit curious or odd as it's not like CRT is even available anymore. Obviously they haven't been manufactured for years so buying new is impossible. Some NOS units may be available but they're going to have been sitting unused for many years. Someone who wants a high end 9" unit is going to have a very difficult time finding a used one in good shape, and given the age of the units there could also be issues with drift (recapping is an option).

Some 'classic' electronics like tube amps and vinyl never quite went away or died, and both have actually been seeing a comeback as of late in terms of sales of new models. I don't think the same will ever be true of CRT given the high cost to build units. A manufacturer would have to spend millions in capital if they wanted to bring forward a new CRT projector model these days as I don't think there are any tube manufacturers left? It's too bad as I think there may be a small but niche market for them (as long as they don't carry a $50K asking price).

Kal

[kal]

I've certainly very much enjoyed both (CRT and digital) and have always been careful to set up and calibrate both to get the most out of the units. Everyone has different likes/needs so in both cases I always purchased units that met those needs. Someone else's needs may be different.

That said, I find the comparisons of digital to CRT a bit curious or odd as it's not like CRT is even available anymore. Obviously they haven't been manufactured for years so buying new is impossible. Some NOS units may be available but they're going to have been sitting unused for many years. Someone who wants a high end 9" unit is going to have a very difficult time finding a used one in good shape, and given the age of the units there could also be issues with drift (recapping is an option).

Some 'classic' electronics like tube amps and vinyl never quite went away or died, and both have actually been seeing a comeback as of late in terms of sales of new models. I don't think the same will ever be true of CRT given the high cost to build units. A manufacturer would have to spend millions in capital if they wanted to bring forward a new CRT projector model these days as I don't think there are any tube manufacturers left? It's too bad as I think there may be a small but niche market for them (as long as they don't carry a $50K asking price).

Kal

[General BB]

Agree here with kal and pureaudio. Well written pure audio then your last post and stick to the fact and the reality.

Leaving the dark side happened for 98% of all the CRT users around the world many years ago maybe in 2006.
The last 2% still use the heart starter every day on ann already more or less super dead technology.
Today maybe 0,2% in 2020

I will for sure enjoy a good CRT, but time has gone really fast forward in development.
So differences have been for shore in favor digitals today. Here we talk "almost" everything even FI. But fade 2 black you need laser technology or CRT.

I think there is only a very small amount of people in the whole world that still stick to CRT, and knowledgeable and really understand CRT.
You can easily see that even here.

[pj-toso]

[km987654]

[ElTopo]

Only a laser projector could change the game for me.

[pureaudio]

[ElTopo]

Epson and Sony but i want to see the upcoming ones in 2021.

[HaydnG90]

[ElTopo]

No Sony bulb projector for me of course as i had my negatives on those.

The Sony laser costs too much $$$ vs the hopefully upcoming Epson.

[opv]

I'm curious, what exactly do you expect to get from a laser projector?

Better fade to black due to lamp dimming? this will probably have similar behavior to dynamic Iris
10000+ hours lamp life? that is nice but not an image quality feature
Better light output?

[General BB]

[pureaudio]