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Me-Machines
Joined: 20 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:14 pm Post subject: New 1272q owner, phantom line issues & burn in |
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Hey everyone,
I picked up a Sony VPH 1272q a few months ago and finally have the time to do some deeper calibration/work on it. This is my first CRT projector experience but I did read through the guides on here, the manual, and a few other posts regarding setup.
I noticed across all 3 tubes there is a phantom line on the bottom. It does move up and down accordingly with the picture when adjusting so I’m not sure what it could be. It’s always below the picture so it doesn’t really affect viewing but still. Here’s what it looks like:
Red Tube: https://i.imgur.com/uEPOIVZ.jpg
Green Tube: https://i.imgur.com/aghc6hb.jpg
Also, I have some moderate burn-in on the blue tube. It seems impossible to find a replacement 07MSP blue tube anymore but I figure if there were anywhere that might know about one it would be here. (It’s too bad no one rebuilds these anymore :/)
Any help on either of these would be greatly appreciated!
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Totally normal on that line, the blanking control might blank it out.
No one ever rebuilt the Sony tubes, as Sony never released the electron guns.
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Me-Machines
Joined: 20 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Kal, It looks like if I add a jumper pin on the CFB it should disable the AKB...will have to find where that is first and will give that a try.
Curt, Tried the blanking controls to no avail, it seems to be outside the projection image. It's nothing major so I guess I can live with it even if disabling AKB doesn't help. Only problem I have now is the geometry is a little off. Some individual corners are a little skewed/warped and aren't fixable with digital adjustments (This is when looking right at the tube so it's not a lens issue). I tried searching for this problem everywhere but haven't found any solutions. thoughts?
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| Me-Machines wrote: | | Only problem I have now is the geometry is a little off. Some individual corners are a little skewed/warped and aren't fixable with digital adjustments (This is when looking right at the tube so it's not a lens issue). I tried searching for this problem everywhere but haven't found any solutions. thoughts? |
Common issue with someone who's new to CRT projectors as they are difficult to set up perfectly for someone who isn't familiar with them. This takes practice. General idea is that you need get familiar with what the controls do, and then zero all digital menu settings and do a correct physical setup first to get as close as possible and then minimize use digital controls. You'll still need to use them but if the physical setup is perfect, digital adjustments will be straightforward.
See the articles here: http://www.curtpalme.com/TechTips.shtm
Practice, practice, practice. It can take weeks or even months before someone is proficient setting up a CRT projector optimally. There's a reason why back in the day when they were sold new they were set up by professionals. Don't expect to be at 100% after the first try.
The good news is that what you're doing has been done a million times before and hasn't changed in 20 years so there's tons of documentation on this website and threads in our forum that can help.
Kal
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Last edited by kal on Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | Me-Machines wrote: | | Only problem I have now is the geometry is a little off. Some individual corners are a little skewed/warped and aren't fixable with digital adjustments (This is when looking right at the tube so it's not a lens issue). I tried searching for this problem everywhere but haven't found any solutions. thoughts? |
Common issue with someone who's new to CRT projectors as they are difficult to set up perfectly for someone who isn't familiar with them. This takes practice. General idea is that you need get familiar with what the controls do, and then zero all digital menu settings and do a correct physical setup first to get as close as possible and then minimize use digital controls. You'll still need to use them but if th physical setup is perfect, digital adjustments will be straightforward.
See the articles here: http://www.curtpalme.com/TechTips.shtm
Kal |
To 'zero' the menus on the 12xx series set all digital adjustments to 128
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Me-Machines
Joined: 20 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | Me-Machines wrote: | | Only problem I have now is the geometry is a little off. Some individual corners are a little skewed/warped and aren't fixable with digital adjustments (This is when looking right at the tube so it's not a lens issue). I tried searching for this problem everywhere but haven't found any solutions. thoughts? |
Common issue with someone who's new to CRT projectors as they are difficult to set up perfectly for someone who isn't familiar with them. This takes practice. General idea is that you need get familiar with what the controls do, and then zero all digital menu settings and do a correct physical setup first to get as close as possible and then minimize use digital controls. You'll still need to use them but if the physical setup is perfect, digital adjustments will be straightforward.
See the articles here: http://www.curtpalme.com/TechTips.shtm
Practice, practice, practice. It can take weeks or even months before someone is proficient setting up a CRT projector optimally. There's a reason why back in the day when they were sold new they were set up by professionals. Don't expect to be at 100% after the first try.
The good news is that what you're doing has been done a million times before and hasn't changed in 20 years so there's tons of documentation on this website and threads in our forum that can help.
Kal |
I had read these before but gave them another look over and did find a few things I was missing so it's good a reread it. I replaced the CRT spacers with springs and washers, allowing me to better adjust the physical setup. I was able to line up the majority of the center but couldn't get the far sides without digital adjustments. I don't have the stock front projection lens spacers, just the rear ones so I'm assuming this may be part of the problem? After digital adjustments I still an issue with the bottom right corner of the image. As you can see in the linked pictures below, the blue and red tubes are bending the image in on that one corner. It seems odd that they would both be off in just that one corner. Any ideas on what I'm missing here?
https://i.imgur.com/3GvAvcG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZwhAHYc.jpg
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Me-Machines wrote: | | I was able to line up the majority of the center but couldn't get the far sides without digital adjustments. |
Some digital adjustment will always be required. That's normal. What I'm getting at is some new to CRT owners will not do any physical adjustments at all and try to do all with digital which not only isn't always possible but stresses the electronics and causes more drift. For example, you want to do the lens toe-in perfectly so that the centers of all 3 tube grids line up perfectly with all digital adjustment zero'ed out (centered). Same with (say) height and width: If there's pots to adjust somewhere on the unit for those adjust until all 3 tube grids are the same size in height and width.
Once all is perfect you then go with adjusting the the digital controls and doing convergence.
Your pics show that you're pretty darned close. What's left to adjust would be done by zone convergence. While I've never worked on Sony's what you'll probably see when doing zone convergence is that adjusting grid points closer to the center also affects zones points farther away from the center. So you tend to want to start adjusting in a circular pattern from the center out. Adjusting a near center point may result in no adjustments needed feather out from the center.
For example, looking at the pics you posted, if you go to the zone all the way to the right about 3 blocks up and adjust red a bit to the left, the blocks below will likely shift as well.
The less you push the digital controls from their center points the more stable your convergence will be from startup to shutdown.
Kal
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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BTW, in going through some stuff, I have a near minty 07MP blue tube. you can have it virtually for the price of shipping. I haven't powered the tube up in at least 5 years, but I'm sure its fine.
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Me-Machines
Joined: 20 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | BTW, in going through some stuff, I have a near minty 07MP blue tube. you can have it virtually for the price of shipping. I haven't powered the tube up in at least 5 years, but I'm sure its fine. |
Curt, will the 07MP work on the 1272Q since it uses an MSP? I read in several threads on here you can use MSP's for pj's that use MP's but not the other way around. If it does work I'd gladly get it from you!
Kal, after your comment about the zone convergence I looked in the manual again and learned about using the position buttons to change where the zone adjustment is...I felt so stupid missing that but finally, it's all done! Thank you!!
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Me-Machines wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | BTW, in going through some stuff, I have a near minty 07MP blue tube. you can have it virtually for the price of shipping. I haven't powered the tube up in at least 5 years, but I'm sure its fine. |
Curt, will the 07MP work on the 1272Q since it uses an MSP? I read in several threads on here you can use MSP's for pj's that use MP's but not the other way around. If it does work I'd gladly get it from you!
Kal, after your comment about the zone convergence I looked in the manual again and learned about using the position buttons to change where the zone adjustment is...I felt so stupid missing that but finally, it's all done! Thank you!! |
It will , but the focus control will be turned all the way to one side. There's a tiny possibility that you may not get 100% focus, but it's the blue tube, and given a slightly out of focus blue vs a burned good focus blue, I'd go for the slightly out of focus tube.
Email me through the main site please.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 12:59 am Post subject: |
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People will often purposely defocus blue to get more light output. It’s quite surprising how far you can push that defocus and not even notice it. It used to do this on my Barco Cine 8 quite drastically and ran it that way for years. Only ever noticed it once: A movie that has completely blue credits at the end. 
Kal
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Me-Machines
Joined: 20 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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In that case I’d gladly give it a try since mines pretty burnt in. Curt, can you PM me for shipping info/payment?
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Glad it was a simple solution!
