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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Ok. So a 4k player down-converting, to 1080p, is the same as watching 4k mastered to 1080p discs in a regular 1080 player then?
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| thewolfman wrote: | | Ok. So a 4k player down-converting, to 1080p, is the same as watching 4k mastered to 1080p discs in a regular 1080 player then? |
I have no way of knowing this at this moment. Only that a well mastered 4K source (4K cameras) properly transferred to 1080P makes for a better 1080P Blu Ray image.
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: | | Ok. So a 4k player down-converting, to 1080p, is the same as watching 4k mastered to 1080p discs in a regular 1080 player then? |
I have no way of knowing this at this moment. Only that a well mastered 4K source (4K cameras) properly transferred to 1080P makes for a better 1080P Blu Ray image. |
Post more if you can.
Will soon change the boards. Cliffhanger!
Great shots! 
Last edited by thewolfman on Sat May 20, 2017 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Do a few in larger size, add one more from the same batch.
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hey mp.How do you adapt the SMPTE 2084 EOTF to the CRT projector when downscaling UHD BD to 1080P..?
_________________
VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| greg9518lc wrote: | | Hey mp.How do you adapt the SMPTE 2084 EOTF to the CRT projector when downscaling UHD BD to 1080P..? |
I'm simply using a 1080P Blu Ray disk in a standard Blu Ray player, which is the norm.
The only difference here is getting well converted 4K source to 1080P Blu Ray disks.
It's really all about the cameras and the quality of them, or in some cases, the cameras are 6K and I'm sure as always best quality conversion processing is important. Now what happens and what they use in the conversion, I'm not aware of.
But do note that that every 4K source to 1080P conversion will not be done properly. But have found out that some 4K capturing gets a lot of attention because of the high quality cameras being used an why.
And I would suspect that a good 4K player should be able to do the same thing, because if it also converts the 4K source material to 1080P, I'm thinking it should also do a good job in making it happen (REC709 or sRGB). The player I've yet to test for this.
The Blu Ray I'm using here in my Panasonic Blu ray player is: Planet Earth 2 (1080P version) - it's 2 disk in a single case.
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:54 am Post subject: |
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When you suspect a 4K player does a good job converting to 1080P, have you considered how it converts the SMPTE 2084 EOTF, and how that will work out on a low output CRT.?
_________________
VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| greg9518lc wrote: | | When you suspect a 4K player does a good job converting to 1080P, have you considered how it converts the SMPTE 2084 EOTF, and how that will work out on a low output CRT.? |
I'm not sure what is going on in the conversion process, so without trying one myself, I wouldn't know at all.
My hope was they had done something really decent, considering they seem to provide an 1080P output. I read where a 4K disk was used on a Panasonic and a CRT rate was used. The person indicated they noticed a better image going 4K converted to a CRT rate.
The 1080P Blu Ray that's from a 4K mastering I'm using now looks OK on my setup. I'm not seeing any brightness or color issues, and find the colors to be really nice.
It appears from my reading there's a lot to learn on this 4K thing. So I guess I'll need a player and 4K source to really find out for myself. Never thought it would be so complicated.
Oh, I did pick up another camera.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:19 am Post subject: |
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I took a few more from the Planet Earth Blu Ray:
Switched neck boards on these.
Last edited by mp20748 on Sun May 21, 2017 1:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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gregstv
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 628
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:31 am Post subject: |
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I have planet earth 2 in 4k. It looks really nice on the Barco. Ultra clean and smooth.
I will get some screen shots. I am using the Panasonic 4k player.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| gregstv wrote: | I have planet earth 2 in 4k. It looks really nice on the Barco. Ultra clean and smooth.
I will get some screen shots. I am using the Panasonic 4k player. |
What are you sending to the Barco, are you doing 1080P or something lower?
I'm loving this 1080P Blu Ray version. It image is so dense it's hard to notice the convergence being off. I haven't touched the convergence, but can only see it being off if I bring up a pattern, or when using one of the other Blu Rays.
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racerxnet
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 362
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | greg9518lc wrote: | | When you suspect a 4K player does a good job converting to 1080P, have you considered how it converts the SMPTE 2084 EOTF, and how that will work out on a low output CRT.? |
I'm not sure what is going on in the conversion process, so without trying one myself, I wouldn't know at all.
My hope was they had done something really decent, considering they seem to provide an 1080P output. I read where a 4K disk was used on a Panasonic and a CRT rate was used. The person indicated they noticed a better image going 4K converted to a CRT rate.
The 1080P Blu Ray that's from a 4K mastering I'm using now looks OK on my setup. I'm not seeing any brightness or color issues, and find the colors to be really nice.
It appears from my reading there's a lot to learn on this 4K thing. So I guess I'll need a player and 4K source to really find out for myself. Never thought it would be so complicated.
Oh, I did pick up another camera.
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Transcoding takes care of both the playability and the color space of a 4k to 1080p disk. You can search the Premier Pro forums for answers to this question. Mike, I got the jist of what you were stating several posts back. 4K content scaled to 1080p on disk, not 4k scaled down on the player.
MAK
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gregstv
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 628
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | gregstv wrote: | I have planet earth 2 in 4k. It looks really nice on the Barco. Ultra clean and smooth.
I will get some screen shots. I am using the Panasonic 4k player. |
What are you sending to the Barco, are you doing 1080P or something lower?
I'm loving this 1080P Blu Ray version. It image is so dense it's hard to notice the convergence being off. I haven't touched the convergence, but can only see it being off if I bring up a pattern, or when using one of the other Blu Rays.
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1080p out of the Panasonic.
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gregstv
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 628
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 5:39 am Post subject: |
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I leave the SDR set at 0. It works like a brightness control.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| gregstv wrote: | | I leave the SDR set at 0. It works like a brightness control. |
Hmm, this might be helpful to Greg9518 since he has a lot of questions concerning a 4K player..
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| racerxnet wrote: |
Transcoding takes care of both the playability and the color space of a 4k to 1080p disk. You can search the Premier Pro forums for answers to this question. Mike, I got the jist of what you were stating several posts back. 4K content scaled to 1080p on disk, not 4k scaled down on the player.
MAK |
Yeah Mak. Yet, three different times a 4K player comes up, with me saying the following to Wolfman prior:
| thewolfman wrote: | | Ok. So a 4k player down-converting, to 1080p, is the same as watching 4k mastered to 1080p discs in a regular 1080 player then? |
I have no way of knowing this at this moment. Only that a well mastered 4K source (4K cameras) properly transferred to 1080P makes for a better 1080P Blu Ray image.
Ok, let me try it this way, I am not using a 4K player, never seen one and know almost nothing about them. These are from a seven year old 1080P Blu Ray player..
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | greg9518lc wrote: | | Hey mp.How do you adapt the SMPTE 2084 EOTF to the CRT projector when downscaling UHD BD to 1080P..? |
The Blu Ray I'm using here in my Panasonic Blu ray player is: Planet Earth 2 (1080P version) - it's 2 disk in a single case. |
I forgot to mention that I'm waiting for you to post shots from that same Blu Ray, which should be so much better since you have a much better and later model Blu Ray player, to include, you guys have been claiming to have better boards and your setup is really dialed in.
I'm thinking since with using that Nature Scene Blu Ray it would be the most revealing, because there's a ton of high resolution video on that disk, and that should make for a great Shootout..
let me know when you get the disk and let's have some fun. I'll even leave my projector just the way it is. The green LCP tube and not going further to dial things in. I may only touch up on the color balance.
But I figure the best way to really answer your persistence is to demonstrate it on the Shootout thread..
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 2:50 am Post subject: |
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Just getting around to figuring out this new to me camera I've been using these past weeks.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, it's time to go back to my favorite and best Blu Ray player...but I gotta say I really like this new camera.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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A screencap comparison of this is posted in the screencap thread.
This of course is without calibration, but I will be working on tightening things up this week..
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