CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

ecrabb · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:47 am Post subject:

Uh yeah, Mark - where is $190 half of a good EM projector?

I've seen you and a few others make these off-the-cuff remarks about how it's silly to spend any money at all on these old ES-focus projectors when good EM-focus projectors are so cheap. I haven't run across them, and I'm wondering where they are.

From my experience, anything much less than a grand, and you're not buying a useable EM projector - you're buying a "project". It'll probably have at least one toasty tube that's going to cost $500-600 to make right.

In my opinion, an EM-projector that's in nice shape is going to be in the $1500-2000 ballpark - either up front, or in total after you put some money into it. The occasional high-hour Marquee 8000 or 8110 or something is an occasional exception. Or, an ebay machine that's a complete gamble.

I'm not saying I'd spend $190 on convergence boards for a 1251 - I wouldn't - but, to make it sound like $190 is half of an EM projector isn't reality. Hell, $190 US probably won't even cover SHIPPING!

SC

ecrabb · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:55 am Post subject:

Mark_A_W · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:21 am Post subject:

I bought my XG for $500 from Ebay in Singapore (+ shipping). Yes, it turned into a project, but it was well worth it.

You just need to look around, know what you want, and know what condition something needs to be in to be usable.

If you want it all perfect and safe, then yep, it'll cost you $1500+ from Curt.

Otherwise, take the ebay lottery, preferably local, and see how you go. I've seen PG Xtras go for next to nothing. Just make sure the tubes are ok.

Throw distance on a 1251 is 1.3x width, but you will need to shim the tube mounts to toe them in.

1031 · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 657 Location: Finland

I did quick reading on this topic.. But i think that bandwidht difference is from different Ca cards..(Cab+carg) and there is different output amps..Vph05 or Vph06(1272 and 1271) and that makes that difference.

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:30 am Post subject:

rwijnhov · Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 32

ok i have a 1251 where I put in the DE and DD board. So if you tell me what res to check I can test this for you. But I do believe there are two kinds of 2151 there is one with the slot between the red and green and one without.

ecrabb · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject:

ecrabb · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject:

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject:

I was running 4:3 with the back of the projector tilted up and the projector about 2 feet up from the bottom of the screen. SO yes totaly different setup.

sdubreuil · Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:43 am Post subject:

Hi

I have now my PJ at 10ft. I will try it that way. Unfortunatly I do not have my Moome IFB-HD HDMI card yet so I can't try it at 1080i or 720p.

Question, why the Sony Throw Distance Calculator (PJCalc! v5.20) do not has the VPH 12xx inside the list? It look like this one was remove At version 1.9.

Can I use another model in the list?

Thnaks

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:52 am Post subject:

I've never used that so I coulnd't realy say. It's better to look into the lenses with the sunglasses and use the RGB Size control to set your rasters 3/8" from the tube edge and then move the projector forward/backward untill the picture fits your screen. Refocus and reconverg.

Most of the PJCalculators are 5=7%(maybe more?) conservative from what people have said in previous post's.

sdubreuil · Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:53 am Post subject:

rwijnhov

I'm happy to see somebody who did that change. Could you please comment about your performance observation since you did that change?

Regards

sdubreuil · Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:40 am Post subject:

Analog Rock

I just found the PJcal from (sony software). Do you believe this will be the equivalent of what you are doing with the sunglass?

This will be easier with the setup I have.

Look at
http://www.crtprojectors.co.uk/crt_tech.htm

I did a mistake with screen size earlier. It is a 50*67 = 84 dia or (16*9) = 77.
This software tell me to put my PJ at 7.7 feet.
Lens Ring = small and CRT spacers at small as well.

Thanks

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:12 am Post subject:

PJcalc is super conservative and was designed to be very forgiving for many different installations and less-than-careful installers. In our HTs where time isn't money, we can be much more exact about how we set them up. That's why you should use the "sunglasses / maximize-rasters" method - and pretty much ignore what the manual or PJcalc says. You can use PJ calc to get rough numbers but realize - it's could be as much as 10% on the long side for throw distance.

Now, with a screen that small, you really should be able to get a nice, sharp, and bright image on a screen that size... even with contrast cranked down some - which will help sharpness.

Man, if you had the projector at almost 13 feet from the screen, it's no wonder you had a soft image - you would have been using barely half the tube face!

After you get things in the ballpark, pull the lenses off and see if the red and blue rasters are centered. If they're not, don't use the CRT spacers and do the "spring" mod. That mod uses springs and nuts to make the CRT toe-in angle infinitely adjustable.

Also, to really maximize sharpness (especially with a screen that small), you'll eventually probably want to do the "mooneyass" mod to give you Scheimpflug correction.

I can't emphasize enough once you find the throw distance that maximizes rasters, to take your time, be anal, and find the exact (down to the gnat's ass!) spot where the projector is perfectly centered and perfectly square to the screen. When the projector is in that spot, it's amazing how easy it is to converge. When it's not in that spot and is off even my a few inches, it's amazing what a paint in the ass it is to converge.

Finally, realize that you'll probably do a full setup no less than ten times on your projector over the next few weeks or months. Every time you do it, you'll get a little bit better at it, and the image will get better every time.

SC

1031 · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 657 Location: Finland

rwijnhov · Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 32

Ok after swapping the cards I have de 21 zone convergence. And I can project 720p and 1080i without any problem and these are the onlyones i use. I even tested 1360x768@60Hz and this was no problem either. So pls give me a resolution so I can test the bandwidth. But I believe a normal 1251 would not do 1360x768@60Hz. But maybe I am wrong. I also found out that there are different versions of the 1251 the ones with the empty slots between red en green and the ones without. My believe is that de 1251 with the empty slots are 1271's which they crippled with the zone convergence.

rwijnhov · Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 32

And when i have time i can check the ca cards of the 1251 and 1271 for differences. But this will be in the weekend.

sdubreuil · Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:18 am Post subject:

Hi again

This forum is so hot; I will have a lot of fun to try all this new method and ideas. Thanks everyone. Thanks Analog Rock, I will try your method with the sunglass for sure. I will get back to you with the result as soon that is done.

rwijnhov, regarding the empty slot of the DE and DD, I have it but between G and B tube. I have also had exchange email with Curt about this and here what he said.

"By putting in the 21 point convergence boards, yes the 1251 will be a 1271."

You will also find on his web site, this info:
“Between the G and B tubes are the DD and DE boards. Note that not every set has these boards. These are extra D/A converters and zone convergence boards”

"Note: All it takes for a 1251 to become a 1271 is the installation of a newer DD and DE board from a 1271 projector. Doing so will give the 1251 the 21 zone convergence and higher bandwidth found on the 1271. This will only work if the 1251 main board has the two slots between the green and red tube needed. "

I believe the last comment about the “between the green and red” is wrong but the first one about the G and B is the right one if I compare to my PJ.

The only thing I want to do with this projector is 720p and 1080i just like you.
As per you last comment, I can understand that your PJ did a better job after you have added this DD and DE boards. Please confirm?

I can have those cards for $190 (for both). Do you believe it worth it performance wise?

FYI, one of the 2 slots is not empty. See the Picture
It is look like very small board with resistances. This is probably only for ground connection.

Stephane

rwijnhov · Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 32

sorry indeed must be between green and blue. My machine did become a better performer. and the card now there is a dummy.

sdubreuil · Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:35 am Post subject:

Hi Ecrabb

I just read again all the info that you provide me. In particular thsi one:
"Also, to really maximize sharpness (especially with a screen that small), you'll eventually probably want to do the "mooneyass" mod to give you Scheimpflug correction.
"

Could you please tell me what you mean by ""mooneyass" mod to give you Scheimpflug correction. "

Again Thanks a lot