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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | | @Tim: What rez/refresh rate would you put into one projector ? |
I expect 1080p/60 or 72 would be ideal although I am sure others will disagree. I run 1024p/60 because 1080p is not a stock resolution on the Analog processor.
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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For a blend i have 1064x800@72Hz to each in mind ?
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hello
Or perhaps 1080p x 1050, as you will lose 10% to overlap.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | Guys
In my experience, stacking is rather more of an alignment nightmare, and with a Marquee some adjustments are slammed to the limit. Stacking also means you are using as little as 56% of the tube faces, so I cannot imagine that being brighter than edge blending with 85-90% phosphor usage.
It's a free country, set up your rig how you please. |
Maybe so, but Craig said that a blend is just as much of a nightmare to setup. IIRC TSE mentioned the same thing.
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 1:19 am Post subject: |
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It'd be easier with longer throw lenses and greater distance from projector to screen. With less angularity to compensate for, stacking projectors would be easier.
I'm wondering about the use of (custom made) lens spacers to increase throw distance.
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | Tim in Phoenix wrote: | Guys
In my experience, stacking is rather more of an alignment nightmare, and with a Marquee some adjustments are slammed to the limit. Stacking also means you are using as little as 56% of the tube faces, so I cannot imagine that being brighter than edge blending with 85-90% phosphor usage.
It's a free country, set up your rig how you please. |
Maybe so, but Craig said that a blend is just as much of a nightmare to setup. IIRC TSE mentioned the same thing. |
Hello
Craig is entitled to his opinion, but I don't know if he ever set up a blend. Or a stack. He is likely to discredit anything he doesn't sell. I have set up several stacks, and operated a blend system at home for years, so I can speak from experience.
If you find a superior way of painting a ten or twelve foot screen width, please share it with us. Blending uses the most phosphor, and typically the throw distance is less than the screen width. The electronics cost more, sorry about that. There is a forum member, William Kosmann, wkosmann, who has used blending almost as long as I have, feel free to quiz him as to his experience.
Last edited by Tim in Phoenix on Tue May 17, 2016 2:30 am; edited 2 times in total
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| cmjohnson wrote: | It'd be easier with longer throw lenses and greater distance from projector to screen. With less angularity to compensate for, stacking projectors would be easier.
I'm wondering about the use of (custom made) lens spacers to increase throw distance. |
Hey CM
Lenses have spacers, just turn the rear barrel. Nothing will change the inheritent magnification or throw distance, those are in the lens design.
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:31 am Post subject: |
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Actually, spacing the lens out will change things a bit. They're really not any different in any meaningful way compared to camera lenses, and there are extension tubes available to fit most camera lens mounts.
How Extension Tubes Work (This would apply to a projector lens as well.)
An extension tube is an attachment that goes between your camera body and your lens. It’s not an optical element, so there is no glass involved. All it does, is get the lens further away from the focal plane. Now, the practical upshot of this, is that your minimum focusing distance gets smaller. So, with an extension tube, you can get closer to your subject; you can fill the frame with more of it, and still achieve focus.
Of greater interest as far as projection lens usage is concerned, is that this also has the effect of reducing the field of view through the lens. The effective angular field of view is reduced, which means a smaller image is projected for a given distance. It also means that you get more throw distance for a given screen size.
The optical principles work out the same, in general terms. But is an extension tube actually a practical or useful thing for a CRT projector? Ignoring the fact that you'd need three of them? I'm honestly not sure.
I could actually do an experiment and find out. I have a BUNCH of Marquee C element clamp rings, which are stackable. I could
stack up some and stick them between a lens and the screen on a test projector and see what happens. I'd have to hold the lens in place by hand, though, unless you know where I can get some REALLY long 8-32 lens mounting screws.
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Hey CM
If your theory is correct, the image size would change along with the focus when turning the lens barrels, eh?
And there would be kits from Sony, Barco, Ampro, Ehome to enable this feature for customers.
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 3:30 am Post subject: |
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I'll experiment with this idea tomorrow evening when I return to my workshop. I've got three more sets of potted CRTs to do final tests on anyway. I'll stick two greens in my test chassis, match the raster sizes up, then add four spacers (call it an inch) under one of the lenses and see what happens.
It MAY be that the change in length has to happen BEFORE the C element. Which would make extension tubes HIGHLY impractical.
It'll be a fun experiment and I'll report my findings. I may even photo document it, if I remember to bring my camera.
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huggy
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 927
Location: Melbourne,Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | | What movie is that ? |
The dressmaker
Dave
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:30 am Post subject: |
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At the current price of CRT projectors blending is not expensive anymore.
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huggy
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 927
Location: Melbourne,Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | | At the current price of CRT projectors blending is not expensive anymore. |
How much are blending units though?
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| huggy wrote: | | ElTopo wrote: | | At the current price of CRT projectors blending is not expensive anymore. |
How much are blending units though? |
many thousands of dollars
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | Tim in Phoenix wrote: | Guys
In my experience, stacking is rather more of an alignment nightmare, and with a Marquee some adjustments are slammed to the limit. Stacking also means you are using as little as 56% of the tube faces, so I cannot imagine that being brighter than edge blending with 85-90% phosphor usage.
It's a free country, set up your rig how you please. |
Maybe so, but Craig said that a blend is just as much of a nightmare to setup. IIRC TSE mentioned the same thing. |
Hello
Craig is entitled to his opinion, but I don't know if he ever set up a blend. Or a stack. He is likely to discredit anything he doesn't sell. I have set up several stacks, and operated a blend system at home for years, so I can speak from experience.
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Maybe I misunderstood, but IIRC Craig said he calibrated your blend once. I am not sure how many he has done, but he was willing to do Williams, again IIRC.
As for stacks, Craig worked on Cliff's stack multiple times. He would have worked on it more, if they hadn't had a falling out. Fortunately, they reconciled before Cliff's death.
I know TSE told me the difficulty of setting up a blend.
| Quote: |
If you find a superior way of painting a ten or twelve foot screen width, please share it with us. Blending uses the most phosphor, and typically the throw distance is less than the screen width. The electronics cost more, sorry about that.
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What you are really asking is how do achieve adequate brightness on a large screen?
There are only three ways to my knowledge.
1)Stack
2)Blend
3)High Gain Torus or High Power screen
They all have there advantages and disadvantages with #3 probably being the easiest to achieve.
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There is a forum member, William Kosmann, wkosmann, who has used blending almost as long as I have, feel free to quiz him as to his experience. |
You really want to go there. Why don't you ask William how long his blend has been actually in service? I realize that has to do with other factors, but it is still noteworthy nonetheless. And yes, I was at the meet when the blend was having issues.
The fact is blending can be a great set up. Once you overcome the expense and PIA set up, it can give a very nice picture. I just got off the phone with Rocco yesterday and he is still planning on going through with his. That would make five that I know about in this community.
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huggy
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 927
Location: Melbourne,Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Something goes wrong with one of pjs on stack means I can still watch one
Something goes wrong on blend means I cant watch sh*t 
Dave
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huggy
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 927
Location: Melbourne,Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Cant get camera settings right, any advice?
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Blend is always on If you have backup projectors for each 😯😯😯
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huggy
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 927
Location: Melbourne,Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | | Blend is always on If you have backup projectors for each 😯😯😯 |
So you gonna do it ? What blender are you going to use?
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Still have the TV one 1250 units.....
What happened again to your 909 ?
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