CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

mp20748

Maybe a few months ago I had mentioned a noticeable difference once I got an Marquee on my ceiling with LUG's in it.

I had posted that the LUG's and stock Marquee yokes were not a good combination, because the LUG's in comparison to my other Marquee with LCP's produced a softer image. I know this may have come as a shock to some, but I've since went further to not only confirm it, I now know why there is a difference.

Believe it or not, the LUG's require a different neck board equalization tuning in order for them to properly work in a Marquee (stock focus coils) than what the boards were designed for. As has been believed, they are really projector specific for proper bandwidth performance.

I'll post more on this later. Ive found out a ton of things concerning the two different CRT's over the past two months. Both are exceptional performers, with the LCP's have a better phopor life due to the larger spot size of its gun.

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands

I just tried a quick shot no setup with my 9518LC with lugs and the new standard neckboards and the modified vim and it looked very sharp and not even dark but contrast 50 was the max.

mp20748 · Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:59 pm Post subject:

Those newer neck boards look OK at midpoint contrast, but if you notice the pattern closer the right top line group is slightly brighter. It's easier to understand that when looking at the first vertical line on that top right line group.

What are those distorted lines at the top of the image?

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands

mp20748 · Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:21 am Post subject:

Since discovering there is a different technical requirement between the two CRT versions, I'm now also able to do up a set of neck boards that are specific to either of the two. The older original Electrohome design was designed for the LCP tube, and that's why when used on the LUG, the produced image is softer. The difference in the guns in the two CRT designs also require a difference is requirements on the G1 and Cathods of the CRT.

The G90 and Barco 909 appear sharper because they were designed for and around the LUG.

I can even better tune to LCP to it's original Electrohome designed neck boards (just as I've just done to the newer version neck boards to the LUG's), something that would have been very necessary when running 1920X1080P 60/72 hz. The original neck board design did not factor in that higher bandwidth and resolution requirement of todays higher performance source material.

My screen has a sag in the lower section, that's barely noticiable because it's a Homemade design, so you're not alone on the screen thing.

mp20748 · Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject:

Newer VDC neck boards - Contrast 75

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands

I am thinking Marquee should be lcp that looks perfect!

mp20748 · Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:29 pm Post subject:

That setup is using LUG's, but that same result can be done with either LUG or LCP. But the neck board would have to be modified for the CRT. And that's either of the neck boards.

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands

Yes I ment without modifications the new neckboards with the lugs are to dimm. I can go till 60 contrast still a 9ftL but I simple prefer the lighter LCP and 72 hz makes even more light. I would not trade light for sharpness as it seems sharp enough to me with the LCP. That was the long opinion Smile

mp20748 · Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:53 pm Post subject:

The LUG's are really the LIGHT CANNONS out of the two. That's why they are being used in both 909 and G90. Not sure why that's the case, but when I had my other 9500Lc on the ceiling, it was not able to put out the light this new one is presently putting out. Though I beleive the neck boards are really responsible for the greater light output.

Initially, the same VDC newer neck boards that are in my new 9500LC is putting out much more light than what we measurred before some more changes were made to them. And unlike the 40 or 60 tops that they are known for, I'm able, to push the set up to full 100. And that was verified while I demonstrated it to William when he was here a few weeks ago. He got to see them operate up to 100 while at the same time seeing a very bright and clear image.

The main benfefit of going with the LCP, is for longevity, because LUG's wear phosphor sooner. The LUG's are higher resolution, but that may not be necessary at the rate we run the tubes at.

These newer modified VDC neck boards are not available from me, and may never be from me.

mp20748 · Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:14 am Post subject:

So when are you going to post some screenshots?

And what are yoiu saying here: "I can go till 60 contrast still a 9ft"

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands

I will post some screenshots of the mods Smile

9ftL means 9 foot Lambert. I compared to the LCP at contrast 75 lugs at 60 and that way the LCP where brighter close to 11 ftL. I could not go higher with these neckboards but I know the lugs are dimmer because the spot is smaller. If you drive the lugs at 100 they burn like hell Wink

Screenshots are bs. Different cameras setup etc...no to forget different shuttertimes focus and iso settings Wink

There is even a guy using hdr Shocked

mp20748 · Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:55 am Post subject:

I asked because you had posted this a few threads earlier:

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands

It means that if I accept some loss in bandwidth I can go till 60.

mp20748 · Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:59 am Post subject:

So was your lumans evaluations comparison fairly done, using the same video chain and both LUG and LCP projectors?

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands

It was roughly to convince myself. Normally I would post exactly what I do for measurements but since nobody seemed to understand I just post the results. At least I get some reactions now Smile

I measured only green (extrapolated for red and blue) using the same screenmaterial same video path except neckboards. I used the i1pro and maximised the lumens as usual during calibration. I do not see where I could be wrong. I was supprised to get this much light from the lugs that have a lot of wear. I think an average person would be happy with the new neckboards and lugs. I might be.

But it was a rough estimate to see how much dimmer the lugs where and when I look at the exact numbers I am still surprised i got so much light from the lugs but bandwidth suffered somewhat at 60 as I said before.

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands

Bandwidth contrast at 50 (different moome from the earlier pic, unmodified). No setup for sharpness whatsoever (1080p@72)

and the bandwidth at 60

redfox001 · Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands

One more thing my neckboards on the LCP marquee have the standard amplification only noise is modded. I even have a h1100 on one. So they are like standard unmodded old type (selected because not all are equal). They show bandwidth in between the former pictures.

mp20748 · Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:26 pm Post subject:

I agree with your testing with the exception of different neck boards. You should also use the same neck boards when comparing. Same everything for that matter with the exception only being the CRT's.

With the newer model you'll need to be a little more observant, because the roll-off in bandwidth wasn't the only thing that happened when you went to 60. The entire right side of the six pattern (the three on the right in the group) got brighter while the left side got dimmer. That is a more critical fault than the slight bandwidth roll-off, that should have only happned on the top left of the six pattern group.

Also, bandwidth roll-off should not change on gain increase..

mp20748 · Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:23 pm Post subject:

Let me add that I have a 2010 or 11 not sure today 9518LC. I've not tested the stock newer version boards on mine for bandwidth. But they were tested by someone else using the same generator that I have and use. I was told that they tested out to 300mhz. So you must have something wrong in your video chain.