|
As this forum is rarely used anymore, we've locked it. Feel free to browse and read. Questions? Please reach out to us directly. Cheers! |
|
 |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Since this sub-forum is clearly moderated now, can the description be accurately re-written to reflect the change in policy? Saying that a member's only sub-forum is unmoderated due the potential for offensive material and then moderating because material is offensive is inane. Just like allowing a CRT vs digital discussion to exist in the CRT sub-forum, and then wondering why digital owners are showing up to the conversation.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Not pointing at this thread specifically, but we've had a lot of slipping down the slope of people not following the rules to the detriment of the quality of the posts on the forum over the last 6 months or so, to the point of people have started to leave because of it (or so they're telling us from the PMs, emails, and discussions Curt has with people). The less rants/junk posts/attacks we get complaints about, the better. Sometimes a bit of structure and rule following is ok.
After being asked to ban two people on Monday night, I'm starting to pay a bit more attention to what people are saying.
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HogPilot wrote: | | Since this sub-forum is clearly moderated now, can the description be accurately re-written to reflect the change in policy? Saying that a member's only sub-forum is unmoderated due the potential for offensive material and then moderating because material is offensive is inane. Just like allowing a CRT vs digital discussion to exist in the CRT sub-forum, and then wondering why digital owners are showing up to the conversation. |
To be fair this topic is miss posted. It should be in the Audio forum.
So the subject content should be moderated. I suggest it be moved to the appropriate forum.
nashou
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jeffslife
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 4190
Location: ohio usa
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nash, I wasn't being sarcastic. What about that statement made you think I was ?
_________________
We are ALL job creators !
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HogPilot wrote: | | Since this sub-forum is clearly moderated now, can the description be accurately re-written to reflect the change in policy? Saying that a member's only sub-forum is unmoderated due the potential for offensive material and then moderating because material is offensive is inane. Just like allowing a CRT vs digital discussion to exist in the CRT sub-forum, and then wondering why digital owners are showing up to the conversation. |
The rules haven't changed. The forum rules always applied to the OT forum too (which is why for months now we've been asking people to continually play nice and not attack/insult people - it hasn't worked all that well however).
The wording description of the forum is probably incorrect however as we say "unmoderated", but unmoderated doesn't mean that someone doesn't have to follow the overall forum rules.
I changed the description of the OT forum to be:
| Quote: | | For discussions that just don't fit anywhere else including controversial political, religious, and social issues. While overall forum rules still apply, this sub-forum may contain content that some find offensive. If you don't like someone's opinions or beliefs, please don't visit the Off-Topic forum. You must be a logged in to view this forum. |
Allowing people to talk about controversial political, religious, and social issues is the giant can of worms problem that we're all seeing and is exactly why most forum don't allow these discussions. Many people are simply unable to have civil discussions about these subjects.
I left in the word offensive as it's all relative. Someone could start a discussion "Do you think god exists?" and many would find just asking that question to be offensive or posts within the thread where some believe in a different god (or no god) offensive, when in fact the thread may not break any forum rules at all. So people are warned before entering the OT forum. The OT forum should never be a free-for-all forum where members can insult/attack/harass people. Some people have requested we create a forum for that but that just sounds like a bad idea and would end up with the mods having to constantly move threads there that go off the rails.
In theory, it should be possible to have a discussion on highly controversial subjects in the OT forum and still follow the "forum rules" which state that people should not insult, harass, threaten, troll, etc.
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
Last edited by kal on Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:53 pm; edited 6 times in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jeffslife
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 4190
Location: ohio usa
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nash, OK Thanks ! I feel like I am walking on eggshells now.
_________________
We are ALL job creators !
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Note: if the mods would prefer to separate this entire line of discussion into another thread that goes back in the OT forum, I think that would be more appropriate. However, as it's been intrinsic to the thread itself thus far, this is the most appropriate place to continue the discussion.
| kal wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | Since this sub-forum is clearly moderated now, can the description be accurately re-written to reflect the change in policy? Saying that a member's only sub-forum is unmoderated due the potential for offensive material and then moderating because material is offensive is inane. Just like allowing a CRT vs digital discussion to exist in the CRT sub-forum, and then wondering why digital owners are showing up to the conversation. |
The rules haven't changed. The forum rules always applied to the OT forum too (which is why for months now we've been asking people to continually play nice and not attack/insult people - it hasn't worked all that well however). |
The rules are only rules when they're enforced, and that is done incredibly selectively around here. Since I've been here, I've seen some pretty ugly stuff written - mostly in the OT forum. I've specifically pointed out multiple instances of this recently (even though it's gone on for a long, long time), and I was told to pound sand by mods who hid behind the excuse that it wasn't specifically directed at any single forum member, so it didn't count as insulting/harassing/threatening/trolling. Even though we have forum members who belong to some of the slighted groups. More recently the CRT/VW1000 thread had CRT enthusiasts calling Diddern and Andreas21 names, insulting their wives, and taking pot shots at digital projectors in general. What was the result? Not one of those people were even reprimanded in the thread, even though they were insulting both large groups of people and specific forum members.
Now, suddenly because some of the mods and general forum population - including you - are loosely connected with the "audiophile" group that jeff was discussing, how you want to interpret and enforce the rules has changed. Insulting whole groups of people is no longer acceptable, and then in some bizarre twist you move the supposedly offensive thread out of the OT forum - where at least non-members dropping by looking for HT info can't see it - out into the open where anyone can read it. Meanwhile we have a forum member that is a known pot-stirrer actually self admit that he's trolling - something you list as a supposed no-no - and yet what has happened? Absolutely nothing. I have to admit, I'm at a total loss as to what the mod's end goal is here, because there is zero consistency in how, when, and upon who the rules are being enforced. This is literally a forum where using racial epithets, insulting some people that aren't generally liked is acceptable, and admitting to violating forum rules is okay as long as you're liked, but making pointed but somewhat true observations about the level of snake oil involved in selling uber high-priced audio gear earns someone a stern slap on the wrist. It's downright bizarre!
| kal wrote: | The wording description of the forum is probably incorrect however as we say "unmoderated", but unmoderated doesn't mean that someone doesn't have to follow the overall forum rules.
I changed the description of the OT forum to be:
| Quote: | | For discussions that just don't fit anywhere else including controversial political, religious, and social issues. While overall forum rules still apply, this sub-forum may contain content that some find offensive. If you don't like someone's opinions or beliefs, please don't visit the Off-Topic forum. You must be a logged in to view this forum. |
Allowing people to talk about controversial political, religious, and social issues is the giant can of worms problem that we're all seeing and is exactly why most forum don't allow these discussions. Many people are simply unable to have civil discussions about these subjects. |
Thanks for that - unmoderated means unmoderated, i.e. mods don't intervene, for anything (outside of illegal activity that would threaten the entire forum, obviously). The new description is much more accurate.
| kal wrote: | I left in the word offensive as it's all relative. Someone could start a discussion "Do you think god exists?" and many would find just asking that question to be offensive or posts within the thread where some believe in a different god (or no god) offensive, when in fact the thread may not break any forum rules at all. So people are warned before entering the OT forum. The OT forum should never be a free-for-all forum where members can insult/attack/harass people. Some people have requested we create a forum for that but that just sounds like a bad idea and would end up with the mods having to constantly move threads there that go off the rails.
In theory, it should be possible to have a discussion on highly controversial subjects in the OT forum and still follow the "forum rules" which state that people should not insult, harass, threaten, troll, etc.
Kal |
Well that's the trick, isn't it - whether or not to draw a line, and then letting that be the same line for everyone. It has to be an all or nothing proposition - you're either going to allow any discussion to take its course, or you're going to step in when things get "out of line." The problem with moderating such grey areas as what defines an "offensive" remark, or what is insulting or harassing or trolling is that the often depend on the point of view of the person receiving the message. As I've pointed out already - and I could cite numerous more examples - there has been almost no consistency in the attempts at enforcing these supposed rules that apply to some and not others.
All I'm asking for here is consistency and fairness. As of recently, there has been almost none in the moderation of this forum. To be clear: I 100% understand why Diddern was banned. As to everything else...I've been disappointed in how relative all of these supposed rules - and their enforcement - has been. And I know I'm not the only person in that boat either.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HogPilot wrote: | The rules are only rules when they're enforced, and that is done incredibly selectively around here. Since I've been here, I've seen some pretty ugly stuff written - mostly in the OT forum. I've specifically pointed out multiple instances of this recently (even though it's gone on for a long, long time), and I was told to pound sand by mods who hid behind the excuse that it wasn't specifically directed at any single forum member, so it didn't count as insulting/harassing/threatening/trolling. Even though we have forum members who belong to some of the slighted groups. More recently the CRT/VW1000 thread had CRT enthusiasts calling Diddern and Andreas21 names, insulting their wives, and taking pot shots at digital projectors in general. What was the result? Not one of those people were even reprimanded in the thread, even though they were insulting both large groups of people and specific forum members.
Now, suddenly because some of the mods and general forum population - including you - are loosely connected with the "audiophile" group that jeff was discussing, how you want to interpret and enforce the rules has changed. Insulting whole groups of people is no longer acceptable, and then in some bizarre twist you move the supposedly offensive thread out of the OT forum - where at least non-members dropping by looking for HT info can't see it - out into the open where anyone can read it. Meanwhile we have a forum member that is a known pot-stirrer actually self admit that he's trolling - something you list as a supposed no-no - and yet what has happened? Absolutely nothing. I have to admit, I'm at a total loss as to what the mod's end goal is here, because there is zero consistency in how, when, and upon who the rules are being enforced. This is literally a forum where using racial epithets, insulting some people that aren't generally liked is acceptable, and admitting to violating forum rules is okay as long as you're liked, but making pointed but somewhat true observations about the level of snake oil involved in selling uber high-priced audio gear earns someone a stern slap on the wrist. It's downright bizarre! |
Before I visited Cuba I read in multiple guide books that all lobsters are owned by the government and as such you are unable to buy or eat any lobster in Cuba. They said this about cows and other things too...
Imagine my surprise when we got to Cuba and found that many restaurants actually served lobster and that it was for sale many places live. The only reason for the law was because everyone broke it and many others on a daily basis. That way, when the authorities needed to crack down on something unacceptable , they could invariably bust you for stealing lobster from the government or choose one of the other laws you had broken that day.
I don't think this forum is a democracy and I don't think it should be. Kal owns the forum and IMHO how he and the moderators choose to enforce the rules is up to them. There has been a lot of turmoil on the forum lately and how Kal deals with it is through difficult decisions that are up to him.
I'm not trying to be contradictory to you HogPilot and I like many of your posts. I just feel differently than you do on this I think.
Best regards,
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying 
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HogPilot wrote: | | The rules are only rules when they're enforced, and that is done incredibly selectively around here. |
So? That should be obvious. That's what happens when you have volunteer mods and hundreds of posts/day. I can't speak for the other mods but I frankly have no time or interesting in babysitting the forum to ensure people follow rules. It's giant waste of my time.
| Quote: | | Now, suddenly because some of the mods and general forum population - including you - are loosely connected with the "audiophile" group that jeff was discussing, how you want to interpret and enforce the rules has changed. |
No. I just happen to come across the thread. I rarely read anything on this forum. It would be great if everyone followed the rules. The rules haven't changed, how the rules are interpreted or enforced have not changed. Just because a cop doesn't see someone stealing doesn't make it right or change the rules. The cops can't be everywhere. Once and awhile someone gets caught. The thief doesn't then point fingers at his buddies saying 'He stole yesterday and nothing happened so that's not fair!".
| Quote: | | Meanwhile we have a forum member that is a known pot-stirrer actually self admit that he's trolling - something you list as a supposed no-no - and yet what has happened? Absolutely nothing. |
So what? See above.
| Quote: | | I have to admit, I'm at a total loss as to what the mod's end goal is here, because there is zero consistency in how, when, and upon who the rules are being enforced. This is literally a forum where using racial epithets, insulting some people that aren't generally liked is acceptable, and admitting to violating forum rules is okay as long as you're liked, but making pointed but somewhat true observations about the level of snake oil involved in selling uber high-priced audio gear earns someone a stern slap on the wrist. It's downright bizarre! |
There's no "end goal". See previous posts above. If you have a couple hours every day to babysit, we'll make you a mod and you can go nuts. You seem to think there's some sort of logic to all this but the only truth is that:
(1) There are rules
(2) There are many that do not follow them
(3) The mods have no time to enforce
(4) Sometimes a few people may get yelled at for not following the rules to try and steer everyone back on track
If you want iron fist consistency on how things are done, go to a forum not run by volunteers.
| Quote: | | Well that's the trick, isn't it - whether or not to draw a line, and then letting that be the same line for everyone. It has to be an all or nothing proposition - you're either going to allow any discussion to take its course, or you're going to step in when things get "out of line." |
No it doesn't as we don't have the manpower to make sure every single post always follows every single rule.
| Quote: | | All I'm asking for here is consistency and fairness. As of recently, there has been almost none in the moderation of this forum. To be clear: I 100% understand why Diddern was banned. As to everything else...I've been disappointed in how relative all of these supposed rules - and their enforcement - has been. And I know I'm not the only person in that boat either. |
I can guarantee that with the structure we have set up here, we will never have consistency given that it's run by volunteer mods. If you need 100% consistency it's not going to happen.
Again:
(1) There are rules
(2) There are many that do not follow them
(3) The mods have no time to enforce
(4) Sometimes a few people may get yelled at for not following the rules to try and steer everyone back on track
If people expect consistency, it won't come from me. I have zero time, zero interest. The amount of effort to get consistency is not worth the time given that this forum produces close zero revenue, and the few dollars it does produce are completely offset by all the problems and issues. I'd make 10x more money working at McDonald's for every hour I have to spend "managing" this forum.
Would I like people to behave? Yes. Will I spend more time than I am now policing it/enforcing it? No. That's pointless effort.
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mr_ro_co
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
God Bless those wonderful, accomplished rich guys who drop $10,000 on 2M long speaker cables because without them, we wouldn’t be able to admire such amazing stuff as $500 worth of materials wrestled into shape within an 8 hour shift by a guy who makes $20/hour in a dusty warehouse in Ogden, Utah. Just dress it up with some fancy anodized end caps and gold plated lugs. KimberKable Black Pearl, circa 1995. Not making this up. Saw this “enterprise” in person. Rationale? There are guys who will buy such stuff. Caveat emptor, whatever the market will bear, yada yada yada.
And it’s only gotten much worse since, particularly the absurdity with power cables. High end audio has a very well deserved reputation for some of its more ridiculous excesses, which most definitely include $200,000 turntables and multi hundred thousand dollar passive loudspeakers. It is the realm of the absurd, and it deserves ridicule. And anyone who spends thousands of dollars on a power cable is a just a brain dead rich *******, by definition. Think about the “value” system held by someone who conspicuously spends crazy sums of money on such demonstrably dumb things.
Some audio aficionados, semi-big spender types here seem very offended by this characterization, to include a non-moderating moderator who definitely sees fit to moderate in this instance but pledges zero consistency to enforcing the forum’s meaningless standards that afford all manner of crap here because there are no resources on a volunteer forum to moderate. Except when an off topic post offends your hobbyist sensibilities (all the other heinous crap is just fine), which becomes eligible for moderating simply by sidewaysing it from off-topic to elsewhere.
Goodness gracious!
Steve
_________________
Not only is there no god, try finding a plumber on Sunday!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mr_ro_co wrote: | Some audio aficionados, semi-big spender types here seem very offended by this characterization, to include a non-moderating moderator who definitely sees fit to moderate in this instance but pledges zero consistency to enforcing the forum’s meaningless standards that afford all manner of crap here because there are no resources on a volunteer forum to moderate. Except when an off topic post offends your hobbyist sensibilities (all the other heinous crap is just fine), which becomes eligible for moderating simply by sidewaysing it from off-topic to elsewhere.
Goodness gracious!
|
Enough Steve. Please read the rules. You've been already warned multiple times now to stop with your personal attacks, insults, and relentless condescending tone. You've now been warned for a last time. Once more and you're out. We get too many complaints about you as it is.
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kal - I'll take you up on your offer to mod. If the bar is set at "so what, I'm a volunteer and don't have time to waste on this" I'm game.
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HogPilot wrote: | | Kal - I'll take you up on your offer to mod. If the bar is set at "so what, I'm a volunteer and don't have time to waste on this" I'm game. |
For Kal, it's an "I don't have time for this stuff" thing. For me, it's a little different.
As you know, the moderators have always been very hands-off. Much of the reason is that many of us left AVS because it was so restrictive; no religion, no politics, no prices. Entire threads would be deleted because of a couple of OT posts. It was ridiculous and it sucked. It was the impetus that drove Curt and Kal to start this forum.
So, knowing from where we came, I think I've only been asked to moderate a couple of times in all my years as a mod. I've always been hesitant except in extreme/blatant cases of some new user just coming to stir sh*t up or make a mess. I think I've only asked Kal to delete one user (because mods can't do it once a poster has five posts or something). Otherwise, all I've done is ask people to play nicely, and delete spam posts about FIFA coins, DVD ripping software, or kitchen remodels once or twice every day or two.
I know you and I disagreed over one recent incident, but how would you have handled that one and/or a couple of the others you haven't liked? Delete posts? Edit posts? Reprimand the poster?
I'm not asking because I don't trust you. To be honest, I think the forum could use a little even-handed moderation - especially with a light, discriminating touch. But, with you moderating, that would obviously be a change from what people are used to, and I'm curious to hear your vision of how it would change, and how you would enforce rules, moderate conduct, etc.
Regards,
SC
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ecrabb wrote: | | For Kal, it's an "I don't have time for this stuff" thing. For me, it's a little different. |
Actually just to be clear... for me it's both the reasons I stated and what Steve wrote. That is, not having the time (more now than before) and also in the past when I had more time, it was that I don't like heavy handed moderating just like Steve mentioned. None of us did it. I never want to edit posts or nuke someone. That should be an extreme last resort after 3+ warnings and the person basically telling you to go 'f--- yourself' either figuratively or literally. Spammers are the exception. They're gone almost instantly.
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kal wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | Kal - I'll take you up on your offer to mod. If the bar is set at "so what, I'm a volunteer and don't have time to waste on this" I'm game. |
Done!
Kal |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
|
