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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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Haha!! Youd need XG LC housings to do an LC conversion, the tubes will fit the housings, but the LC housings wont fit the mounting plates for the AC housings. Not worth the effort.
The PG Plain came with HD-6 lenses, they were colour corrected and filtered, the PLUS and XTRA as well as the AC XGs came with HD-145 and had an option to order with HD-144 for a shorter throw distance.
If your set is fitted with HD-6, these are great lenses, but the HD-144/145 have the absolute best focus and best sharpness of any lens around. As good as a PG is, it may not be worth the effort or cost though. When i say effort, it is all in locating a set, they bolt straight on to any AC NEC set, there is no changes required.
There isnt much else you can really do to hot rod a PG, they were a pretty mind boggling set for 1992.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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I should add there that the RUNCO DTV991 'ULTRA' is the only NEC to be wearing HD-8 lenses, and you would need to swap the AC housings to make HD-145s fit those sets.
Its got me f***ed what RUNCO was thinking when he made that call and slapped 'ULTRA' on it, even though it was an XG110 instead of a 75/85...
Just so you know if any of these sets come your way 
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Rattanee
Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Cheers! Thanks for the info! I doubt I'll be able to get my hands on XG LC housings  But it would be damn cool. I wouldn't mind having to machine into the mounting plate, just for the 'frankeinstein conversion factor' But question... the PG9 is supposed to be a "slightly larger than 7" set". So isn't the XG an 8 inch set? Or do they use the same size tubes then?
You know if there's a list of what optics are compatible with what and what's worth exchanging? Sounds like I'll need to fish around for the HD 145 lenses if I want to get the most out of the set. Also, What about HD 10 lenses? I know of a set that's for sale here, just not sure if I can fit them on my PJ and wether it's worth messing around with.
Also, hooray! I picked up a Sony 1040 set for about $20 yesterday, fully working  Now I'll have something to play retro games on while I'm working on the PG
_________________
Watching atm: Barco Cine 8 Onyx (HD-18 modded)
Working on atm: Barco 808s --> Cine8 Onyx conversion
Retired/shelved units: 2xNEC 9PG, 2xNEC 6PG Plus, Barco Vision 600, Sony VPH-1021
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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A Sony VPH1040 is a VERY reliable projector, 15.7kHz only, but that is perfect for retro gaming. Probably fitted with TAC4 lenses, which are the exact same mount as HD-6 and HD-145.
HD10 lenses are for LC sets, and are of no use to you.
The tubes in the PGs are 8", the Plain and PLUS use an NEC made tube, the XTRA and XG use Panasonic P16 tubes. Theyre of almost identical size and shape.
The PG Plain and PLUS are not really happy when running a large tube face area, and although i got away with it on my 9PG Plain for around 5 years it ultimately caused the death of my convergence board. It ran very hot due to larger raster size requiring alot of correction to get it perfect, however it was perfectly stable for many years and never drifted. There is a lack of cooling in that area on a PG set and the STKs on the convergence and focus boards lack decent heat sinks, they attempt to use the projector chassis to dissapate heat with reasonable success.
I wouldnt bother trying to LC the set even if you can, i converted my XG to LC and although it was an improvement, it took a fair bit of effort to get the tubes out of the housings, and its not worth that effort for a Plain PG.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | A Sony VPH1040 is a VERY reliable projector, 15.7kHz only, but that is perfect for retro gaming. Probably fitted with TAC4 lenses, which are the exact same mount as HD-6 and HD-145.
HD10 lenses are for LC sets, and are of no use to you.
The tubes in the PGs are 8", the Plain and PLUS use an NEC made tube, the XTRA and XG use Panasonic P16 tubes. Theyre of almost identical size and shape.
The PG Plain and PLUS are not really happy when running a large tube face area, and although i got away with it on my 9PG Plain for around 5 years it ultimately caused the death of my convergence board. It ran very hot due to larger raster size requiring alot of correction to get it perfect, however it was perfectly stable for many years and never drifted. There is a lack of cooling in that area on a PG set and the STKs on the convergence and focus boards lack decent heat sinks, they attempt to use the projector chassis to dissapate heat with reasonable success.
I wouldnt bother trying to LC the set even if you can, i converted my XG to LC and although it was an improvement, it took a fair bit of effort to get the tubes out of the housings, and its not worth that effort for a Plain PG. |
I'd also add that I'd not bother with getting a HD145 to that machine either. Since I ran my PG xtra with HD6 lenses for two years and set up a few PG plains with the same lens I can say the PG plain is not quite as sharp to make use of the tiny extra sharpness of the HD145 lenses. I mean the chassis weighs a lot more than the lens itself.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Rattanee
Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | A Sony VPH1040 is a VERY reliable projector, 15.7kHz only, but that is perfect for retro gaming. Probably fitted with TAC4 lenses, which are the exact same mount as HD-6 and HD-145.
HD10 lenses are for LC sets, and are of no use to you.
The tubes in the PGs are 8", the Plain and PLUS use an NEC made tube, the XTRA and XG use Panasonic P16 tubes. Theyre of almost identical size and shape.
The PG Plain and PLUS are not really happy when running a large tube face area, and although i got away with it on my 9PG Plain for around 5 years it ultimately caused the death of my convergence board. It ran very hot due to larger raster size requiring alot of correction to get it perfect, however it was perfectly stable for many years and never drifted. There is a lack of cooling in that area on a PG set and the STKs on the convergence and focus boards lack decent heat sinks, they attempt to use the projector chassis to dissapate heat with reasonable success.
I wouldnt bother trying to LC the set even if you can, i converted my XG to LC and although it was an improvement, it took a fair bit of effort to get the tubes out of the housings, and its not worth that effort for a Plain PG. |
So the HD-145/144 are better then the HD6 right? Where would the TAC4 be then?
The Sony works fine, though it does have a nasty vertical line burnt into the green tube... probably a fault that went unnoticed for a few hours before they fixed it... still, it's a delightfully retro feeling set with all the knobs and buttons I love the two little lights by the convergence adjustments , just wish I knew why they're there Simple solution to setting up a PJ in the dark? But then wouldn't it have made more sense to put some sort of cover over them so they wouldn't be blinding? Well I'll just have to RTFM when I get there. I'll probably look for a replacement green tube at some point. Since this is ES focus, I might just grab a dud RPTV and use the tubes from it.
You just made me wonder... I happen to know that the HD10 lenses come from a PJ that had dud tubes... If I could fit the hardware from those tubes onto the PG tubes, I would be in business for LC But meh... the tube size is supposed to be one inch off and that'd just make for more of a hassle.
As far as cooling the PG goes, I plan on doing some mods to it, including a proper heatsink for the convergence and focus boards. What I plan to do is to cut out the bottom of the projector chassis and mount a nice big low-profile, polished surface aluminum heatsink to the STKs that would stick their fins out the bottom of the PJ just enough not to touch the ceiling. Also, I plan on replacing the lamely placed deflection board heatsink... that thing is just not practical... I'm thinking of using a sink that has the fins lengthwise, seal off the open side of the sink with thin polycarbonate or something similar, and mount a small SLOW fan at the end to move air constantly through it. I only need to figure out how to quieten the power supply cooling fan without compromising the internal temperatures of the PJ.
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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TAC4s are crap...
No way you can fit the 9" housings inside the PG, better off looking for a complete 10PG then and all is there what you'd need...
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Rattanee wrote: |
The Sony works fine, though it does have a nasty vertical line burnt into the green tube.... |
What does the line look like and can you see it with the projector off?
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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There should be a cover over the lights that indicates what each pot does.
The HD-145s will slap the HD-6s into the middle of next week for corner and edge focus. It depends how much you want to pay. Then put the HD-6s on your little Sony to replace the TAC4s.
You cant just use the tubes from a rear pro TV, you will need Sony SD130 or SD187 tubes for that set. Sony 07MS tubes might also work.
Youve got almost no hope of fitting 8" tubes into 9" LC housings and getting a seal there, let alone fitting them into the set.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Rattanee
Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | There should be a cover over the lights that indicates what each pot does.
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Once I remove the top cover of the PJ to expose the circuit boards and tubes, there's only the bare bulbs around the trimpots, no cover. Guess someone ripped it off in the past. But let's not go off topic too much
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: |
You cant just use the tubes from a rear pro TV, you will need Sony SD130 or SD187 tubes for that set. Sony 07MS tubes might also work.
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Do they have a proprietary pinout? I know Sony Trinitron TV tubes have their own pinout and different operating voltages... a PITA... though I generally don't like the pőicture on trinitron tubes so meh...
I wonder what is in Barco 600s models. I'm probably picking one of those up free next week.
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: |
Youve got almost no hope of fitting 8" tubes into 9" LC housings and getting a seal there, let alone fitting them into the set. |
RTV SOLVES EVERYTHING! Nawh just kidding... wasn't a serious thought from the beginning
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Rattanee wrote: |
I wonder what is in Barco 600s models. I'm probably picking one of those up free next week. |
So the hoarding have begun...
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Rattanee
Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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You have nooooo idea I need to start selling off a ton of arcade parts... but it's just so much of a hassle to list everything 
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Rattanee wrote: | | You have nooooo idea I need to start selling off a ton of arcade parts... but it's just so much of a hassle to list everything |
Well i know how that is yes....
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Rattanee, answer this one for us:
| macgyver655 wrote: | | Rattanee wrote: |
The Sony works fine, though it does have a nasty vertical line burnt into the green tube.... |
What does the line look like and can you see it with the projector off? |
Its pretty important
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Rattanee
Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | Rattanee, answer this one for us:
| macgyver655 wrote: | | Rattanee wrote: |
The Sony works fine, though it does have a nasty vertical line burnt into the green tube.... |
What does the line look like and can you see it with the projector off? |
Its pretty important |
It's also pretty important to be near the PJ first! Otherwise it's pretty hard to look!
It's a straight vertical line that is dark and is only present on the green image. I just stared into the green lens with a flashlight. After almost going blind I remembered to hold the flashlight at an angle The green either has a big-ass scratch on the lens, the glass in front of the CRT containing the coolant, or burn of the CRT phosphors. It's hard to determine to be honest. It does not look brown like burn usually does though... it's more grey-ish with a dark background as if it's casting a shadow, but that could just be because of the coloured glycol and the 'aura' of burn-in. It is the same on the image as well, the actual line barely has any light output, and there's a small 'aura' around it that gradually goes to normal light output.
The line is not as tall as the image on the CRT face though, so it doesn't span the entire height of the image. I guess in a horizontal collapse condition the height might shrink as well depending on the fault... so probably burn... Blue and Red CRTs look pristine through the lens though! (That ofc doesn't mean that they will be perfect when looking at them without the lenses too hehh) Could also be someone left the horizontal yoke disconnected, but I doubt that would cause the vertical to shrink... and still it'd probably take at least a few minutes to cause burn-in this severe.
From what I gather the same tubes should be in the Barco Vision 600 though and that's supposed to have good looking tubes... in fact, I've not yet confirmed this, but there's no remote for it, and from what I hear you need one to make those work? So it might even be a working PJ. Supposedly the fans start up but the owner couldn't get a picture. No idea if there's HV though so we'll see... I'm not pushing the issue just in case there is no actual fault just the remote is missing... wouldn't want to end up having to pay more then gas for an analog video only set
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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Well a whole piles of words and I still cannot decipher an answer to my question.
Can you see the line with the projector off?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | Well a whole piles of words and I still cannot decipher an answer to my question.
Can you see the line with the projector off? |
Hahaha!! Lets just take a punt and say yes
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | I bet the Coolant chamber glass is cracked, described by the shadow he sees and it not being brown but more grayish.
| Quote: | | It's hard to determine to be honest. It does not look brown like burn usually does though... it's more grey-ish with a dark background as if it's casting a shadow, |
Athanasios |
Thatll be my guess too, being a 1040 it will probably have clear glycol in the green. Not that it matters!!
The lens frame is really easily removed, two screws each side and two along the top, the frame comes right out to show the tubes.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Rattanee
Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | Well a whole piles of words and I still cannot decipher an answer to my question.
Can you see the line with the projector off? |
That was the long way of saying 'yes'
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Thatll be my guess too, being a 1040 it will probably have clear glycol in the green. Not that it matters!! ? |
There is some form of tinting for sure, as looking into the tubes, PJ off of course, the green tube looks slightly green and the red tube looks slightly red. It -is- fainter than in my PG9, but it's there!
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