CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[cosaw]

[CasetheCorvetteman]

Ok, you clearly are not inderstanding the basics here. Lets see what we can do...

The Euro N64 and infact ALL N64s do composite and S-video with no difference between regions. All models of N64 can now be modded to output RGB, and this has NO IMPACT AT ALL on the resolution they put out. It is game dependant with that console, and most are 640x480i 60Hz or 768x576i 50Hz. The progressive output is still 15.7kHz. The console is not capable of an output higher than 15.7kHz.

The reason RGB is so complex to obtain from the console is the same reason as it is complex to get from a Panasonic 3DO, their signals are delivered to the output encoder chip as digital, and not as analog like almost all other consoles.

240p output from almost every single other game console is the standard output for 15.7kHz progressive signal, not all games or consoles use the full 320x240, but all output that resolution or something very close to it. That explains boarders on any part of the screen, which at the sides, usually ended up in the overscan area and are not seen. The unused portion of the base resolution is usually filled by one colour by the console, for whatever reason. For PAL regions, the console painted more blank lines to fill in the ones missing from the 60Hz to 50Hz conversion.

All domestic TVs from the 80s-90s regardless of PAL or NTSC will accept both 240p at either 50 or 60Hz, depending on the capabilities of the set. There is nothing stopping any standard definition set from displaying a progressive scan image. The Mega Drive ( although Sonic 2 split screen is a noted 480i output ) , Master System, NES, SNES, Atari 2600 etc ALL put out primarily progressive scan images, which every standard def TV will display as progressive, exactly as it was intended.

An RGB signal from a game console is neither PAL nor is it NTSC, it may be 50Hz, or 60Hz, but colour encoding methods are totally irrelevent as they are not done for direct pass RGB.

Instead of focusing on the overal resolution of the console's apparent output, they are all much easier designated into 15.7kHz, or 31.5kHz capable like the Dreamcast. It is the scan rate that the TV has to support, and in some cases the H scan rate also matters.

Forget about labeling anything PAL or NTSC, it is better said 50Hz or 60Hz. PAL comes in both 50 and 60Hz variants and has better colour reproduction than NTSC, which also comes in both 50 and 60Hz variants.

[cosaw]

Thanks for the details Case - very interesting. Up until now I've know virtually nothing about the output capabilities of games consoles. The N64 is about the only console I game on and I don't do that anymore. That's the only reason I bring it up as an example. I even bought it new and spent, what I could afford, on new games. It was only a decade later, when games became relatively cheap on ebay, that I actually bought many games for the system. So I retro game because it's affordable. I couldn't warrant buying new consoles and new games. It's too expensive of a hobby relative to my income.

In your console collection do you mainly stick to your home region or do you collect from around the world or do you mod your consoles to be region free?

For our standard def sets it was very common to have Scart cables in the UK. Do you have those in Oz? It was my understanding that (dependent on wiring) you could send pretty much anything over Scart? As far as I know virtually everyone, of the uniformed, in the UK used composite for there N64 - I know I did. To be honest I've always been pretty turned off by the topic as at the time, and it's probably still the case, it seemed that UK gamers were treated the worst and charged the most. Even looking at it in these times you need to know where to shop to get a suitable cable to send S-Video to a UK N64. I'm pretty certain Nintendo didn't do one for the UK market. It's not straightforward as far as I can tell - even a cable that looks like it should do the job, won't necessarily. I may give it a go and see what difference it makes. I've got a 14" 4:3 crt with Scart in only and a 28" 16:9 crt that will have Scart and S-Video in.

[CasetheCorvetteman]

The N64 s-video cable from the US region requires a 75ohm resistor put in or the luma level is way too high, but it works perfectly fine. Only tge French early models put out RGB over SCART right out of the box, the others need the RGB mod. There is a proper s-video cable for the Euro SNES which also works perfectly without modding the N64, the US version of the SNES and N64 have the 75ohm resistor built into the console, where as the Euro models had it in the cable. No idea why.

Almost all consoles can easily be made region free, some you can use an action reply cart, some like the Mega Drive were almost totally region free and you can easily make them run at 60Hz and change the regions with jumpers, the NES needs a leg cut off a chip, the Master System and 3DO had no region locks at all, the SNES had different shaped carts, the N64 needed the Action Replay, the PS1 needed a chip or a disc swap, the Saturn you could swap jumpers and make it any region you like, the NEO•GEO and CD could play any region but some games vary between regions, so the UniBIOS for carts allowed you to switch regions and arcade or home mode, since both arcade and home carts have indentical chips inside them, all games had all regions as well as home and arcade modes, the CD console could be swapped between regions with a switch soldered to the jumpers.

We did have SCART on some TVs here, but mostly on euro models that were high end and quite expensive. Some high end sets also had RGB-HV inputs, as well as VGA and component.

Almost all our consoles here came bundled with the RF box, the PS1 came with standard composite video cables, the N64 did too, and so did the 3DO. The RGB and conposite cables were available seperate here for all Sega consoles and for the NEO•GEO.

Depending on the console and the game, alot of my Sega stuff came from the UK due to being much cheaper and usually flawless condition, NEO•GEO carts i have mostly from Japan, NEO•CD stuff is mostly copies i downloaded because the console will play copies right out of the box, and same for alot of my 3DO games.

Ive also got a fair few arcade machine boards, most of which are the same the world over except Japan due to language. I have Lethal Enforcers which i play on my XG with the arcade guns.

[CasetheCorvetteman]

Here is a couple pics of some of the collection:

[cosaw]

Thanks for the further details - hopefully some of it will rub off. At least I'll know where I stand if I want to try and get S-Video out of my N64.

You have an impressive collection. You are obviously a big gamer. Do you take out separate insurance or is it covered in the home insurance?

[CasetheCorvetteman]

Covered by home insurance.

[overclkr]

[CasetheCorvetteman]

Thanks!

[AnalogRocks]

(bows down) You have more gaming crap than I do!

[AnalogRocks]

(bows down) You have more gaming crap than I do!

[km987654]

[CasetheCorvetteman]

Its about all i do Keith yeah, no time for gaming!!

[Bodi79]

@Case

Couldn't resist, first pic of my Gameroom.
Btw. In around for weeks there will be an 1208s Barco
sitting in the Room for my Gaming pleasures


Sorry for the bad Image Quality, will make nicer ones soon as i make more progress in the Room.

[CasetheCorvetteman]

Yours is alot more tidy than mine, ive long since run right out of space!!

[_in_peace_]

In fact Dreamcast contains a hidden secret You can, when booting up activate 240p in a couple of games.

http://retrorgb.com/dreamcast.html

[CasetheCorvetteman]

Yep, in order to preserve arcade perfection in those such games

[rebaygsda]

i was interested in the same thing http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=428865#428865
please give me a offer i want 2 i buy one from Curt and another mayby 50 inch 1980/ somewhere compatible With gun games i can Place 2 3 meter and get full screen

[_in_peace_]

Is there anyway to strip out sync signal from jap Super Famicom?
I have a nice RGB scart from it to my CRT TV at this point.

This RGB cable
http://thesuperfamicom.blogspot.se/2011/10/saida-multi-out-e-cabos-de-video-do.html

Will meet this
http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/uploads/1/1/7/8/11783575/1253276_orig.jpg

And then to a CRT projector?

[CasetheCorvetteman]

I dont have a Super Famicom, ive got 3 SNES consoles but never play them.

You need to find the pinout for the AV multiout socket and see which pin is sync, and you should be able to use that. If not, build an LM1881 circuit to create HV sync from the composite signal for your RGB.

[CasetheCorvetteman]

But yes that adaptor will probably work fine.