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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:48 am Post subject: |
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I would like to buy the projectors if they aren't located too far from me. Two G90's for less than $625 a piece is a no brainer. This thread is absurd.
...and the only person on this forum who would not consider a G90 a top reference projector is Kurt. As soon as I saw him post in this thread I was thinking "here we go again." Good lord this place has descended into royal crapulence. No wonder I have been coming here less and less.
craigr
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www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | I would like to buy the projectors if they aren't located too far from me. Two G90's for less than $625 a piece is a no brainer. This thread is absurd.
...and the only person on this forum who would not consider a G90 a top reference projector is Kurt. As soon as I saw him post in this thread I was thinking "here we go again." Good lord this place has descended into royal crapulence. No wonder I have been coming here less and less.
craigr |
Happy new year for you to.. 
I have no financial interest in how different projectors players or processors performs, but i can understand why it might not be so for all of us.
I just state what i see, your welcome to argue or comment to the speciffik post you dont like, and we can take it from there, but the outcome might not be a great G90 sales add.
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | I would like to buy the projectors if they aren't located too far from me. Two G90's for less than $625 a piece is a no brainer. This thread is absurd.
...and the only person on this forum who would not consider a G90 a top reference projector is Kurt. As soon as I saw him post in this thread I was thinking "here we go again." Good lord this place has descended into royal crapulence. No wonder I have been coming here less and less.
craigr |
Spot on.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:17 am Post subject: |
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Right there with ya Craig Kurt's post was exactly what prompted my response and involvement.
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Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Right there with ya Craig Kurt's post was exactly what prompted my response and involvement. |
I also chimed in because of that... Not a reference projector? It's not like theres a whole slew of 9" CRT models that are far superior... 
I'd take them if they were near me, but I doubt they are. My best hope is Jerry here in WI decides to go digital someday so I can buy them from him 
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Exactly Keith, at no point did i ever get the impression anyone claimed his questions to be unreasonable at all, so its got me stuffed where that line of thinking came from. |
Thanks Case. It's a mystery to me too.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| km987654 wrote: | | It's a mystery to me too. |
| km987654 wrote: | What a silly discussion. This is a hobby or interest so it doesn't need to make sense financially. Trying to do so is just nonsense.
Buy them and get into it or just do something else. |
Really? You're confused as to how the above post is saying that the OP's questions were unreasonable? I'm not sure what version of the English language you speak, but labeling the whole discussion as "silly" - and then the OP's thought process as "nonsense" - very clearly did so.
The OP weighed his finite time and money against that which would be required to use these projectors, and decided it wasn't for him (as most people in his position probably would). Why anyone would feel the need to label that as a poor decision is beyond me, and in and of itself silly and nonsensical.
If you - or any of the others chiming in to support you - intended to simply rebuke Kurt, you did a piss poor job on multiple levels. Yeah, we all know he has some very odd positions on projectors in general, but if you have a problem with his faulty assessment of a given projector then address it specifically. Don't lazily condemn the entire thread just because one person (up to the point of your first post, anyways) came in and took a sh*t in it.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Haha!! At this point i would like to make it somewhat clear that i did not support that particular angle of this discussion, and i do support the angle of "silly discussion" from the view point of "the G90 isnt very good for home theatre use"....
Id very much like to know what 'is' good, if indeed the G90 is not...
I also very much support the notion that $1250 USD for two G90s is somewhat of a fair deal, and anyone wanting to enter the hobby would be hard pressed to find a better deal. That is not to say i think someone is silly to pass it up if they feel it is not the hobby for them.
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Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | Haha!! At this point i would like to make it somewhat clear that i did not support that particular angle of this discussion, and i do support the angle of "silly discussion" from the view point of "the G90 isnt very good for home theatre use"....
Id very much like to know what 'is' good, if indeed the G90 is not... |
Yeah, I think everyone collectively rolled their eyes when they read that nonsense about it not being a good HT projector. I'm used to him ignorantly bashing digital stuff, but this was a new trick 
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | I also very much support the notion that $1250 USD for two G90s is somewhat of a fair deal, and anyone wanting to enter the hobby would be hard pressed to find a better deal. That is not to say i think someone is silly to pass it up if they feel it is not the hobby for them. |
I think that's all perfectly reasonable
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Why is there none of you guys who pick up on my post, and document me wrong on some of the week/ bad points i state related to the G90.?
Feel free to be provoked to do so.. Turn on your G90 shoot some screen shots, or whatever it takes, and i promise to not take your poor arguments personal.
Show me that your arguments are not just out of ignorance or financial interest
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:49 am Post subject: |
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No financial interest here, and as ive stated before, no real interest in your claim to every projector being somewhat useless either.
The G90 is one of the finest projectors for home theatre use on this earth, and no one in their right mind can deny that fact.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | No financial interest here, and as ive stated before, no real interest in your claim to every projector being somewhat useless either.
The G90 is one of the finest projectors for home theatre use on this earth, and no one in their right mind can deny that fact. |
So show or share your G90 experience, and prove me wrong.. Pull your fingers out of your behind, and get to it, or go to sleep again.. 
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Kurt, look at a 7" ES machine's images, and you'll appreciate the flat overprocessed lifeless picture of the G90...
You started on the top this hobby too, so you are more critic with the top-class machines, but you are lacking the experience with the low-end machines -as we do the lack of comparision between the top-end machines.
Most of us started on the bottom, if you1d have to use a sony 1252 for years, I bet you'd appreciate the G90 over it. This is something like splitting hair on which caviar do you like, while others are happy to eat salami.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | Kurt, look at a 7" ES machine's images, and you'll appreciate the flat overprocessed lifeless picture of the G90...
You started on the top this hobby too, so you are more critic with the top-class machines, but you are lacking the experience with the low-end machines -as we do the lack of comparision between the top-end machines.
Most of us started on the bottom, if you1d have to use a sony 1252 for years, I bet you'd appreciate the G90 over it. This is something like splitting hair on which caviar do you like, while others are happy to eat salami. |
I totaly get that, but we do write 2015, and there is other options today, we are well past the CRT days.
So if we like to claim something reference, we need to be open to whats going on around us, and not just living in the past.
I dont say that the G90 has not been reference back in the days, im just trying to point out a few issues, who make it very hard to be accepted as a reference and good HT projector on the marked today.
If i was next to those 2 G90 i would buy them, no sweat, at least from a spare part point, selling the lenses, red C element, YA boards, and so on. The part these days are much much more expensive than complete machines.
Some days i even consider taking apart my own G90 as i never use it, but for now i leave it ready to step up this argument, ready to document my points..
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | CIR Engineering wrote: | I would like to buy the projectors if they aren't located too far from me. Two G90's for less than $625 a piece is a no brainer. This thread is absurd.
...and the only person on this forum who would not consider a G90 a top reference projector is Kurt. As soon as I saw him post in this thread I was thinking "here we go again." Good lord this place has descended into royal crapulence. No wonder I have been coming here less and less.
craigr |
Happy new year for you to..
I have no financial interest in how different projectors players or processors performs, but i can understand why it might not be so for all of us.
I just state what i see, your welcome to argue or comment to the speciffik post you dont like, and we can take it from there, but the outcome might not be a great G90 sales add. |
It is to bad that most people underestimate Kurt especially when they are experts in the field. Think they forget that Kurt is a very close tester for Mike Parker and a lot of what he says is backup by Mike Parker with very much experience in the field. So if you read Kurt saying something you better take it serious and you do not get away with 'here we go again. I do not have to debate this because it is ridiculous because of.. what?' CRT has never before done 300HMz we better pay close attention if this does not change the best projector out there listings that where made in the days of dvd's.
If so than a Marquee that canbe bought pretty cheap with some $1000 of modifications might be a far better choice these days.
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cosaw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 164
Location: Nottingham, England
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Why is there none of you guys who pick up on my post, and document me wrong on some of the week/ bad points i state related to the G90.? |
I wish I had a G90 then I'd enjoy trying to do that. I'm still stuck with a 7" ES salami projector till I get my Graphics 808 working. What food stuff equates to a Graphics 808s with Cine 8 soft/firmware? I've never really liked salami and I've never tried caviar. Is caviar as salty as salami? If it is I don't think I'd like caviar either. I like the analogy though.
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | km987654 wrote: | | It's a mystery to me too. |
| km987654 wrote: | What a silly discussion. This is a hobby or interest so it doesn't need to make sense financially. Trying to do so is just nonsense.
Buy them and get into it or just do something else. |
Really? You're confused as to how the above post is saying that the OP's questions were unreasonable? I'm not sure what version of the English language you speak, but labeling the whole discussion as "silly" - and then the OP's thought process as "nonsense" - very clearly did so.
The OP weighed his finite time and money against that which would be required to use these projectors, and decided it wasn't for him (as most people in his position probably would). Why anyone would feel the need to label that as a poor decision is beyond me, and in and of itself silly and nonsensical.
If you - or any of the others chiming in to support you - intended to simply rebuke Kurt, you did a piss poor job on multiple levels. Yeah, we all know he has some very odd positions on projectors in general, but if you have a problem with his faulty assessment of a given projector then address it specifically. Don't lazily condemn the entire thread just because one person (up to the point of your first post, anyways) came in and took a sh*t in it. |
Clearly your the one with the issue. I said the whole discussion was silly not his questions. My points still stand.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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One of the points that I do not get when we compare CRT's is that we agree on using the MTF function, that is the modulation transfer function to see how well it can produce fine detail or sharpness.
Now sometimes people say there is a lot more to MTF than just bandwidth. I think that is true because the lenses also contribute to MTF but if I look at the definition of MTF it is a way to calculate a number that expreses the contrast between the white and the black line at high spatial frequencies. In other words if we look at the 1:1 testpattern we also take in account the 'other' parameters that make up the MTF liek the lenses and the CRT that make perfect black to white is clearly resolving better.
So what other parameters are there to make a CRT that has worse 1:1 have a better MTF?
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | One of the points that I do not get when we compare CRT's is that we agree on using the MTF function, that is the modulation transfer function to see how well it can produce fine detail or sharpness.
Now sometimes people say there is a lot more to MTF than just bandwidth. I think that is true because the lenses also contribute to MTF but if I look at the definition of MTF it is a way to calculate a number that expreses the contrast between the white and the black line at high spatial frequencies. In other words if we look at the 1:1 testpattern we also take in account the 'other' parameters that make up the MTF liek the lenses and the CRT that make perfect black to white is clearly resolving better.
So what other parameters are there to make a CRT that has worse 1:1 have a better MTF? |
MTF is a good meassurement, but you can get that up by put sharper tubes, peak the video chain, and improve on focus magnets.
All that dont mean you have a clean high bandwidth linear non distorted video chain.
Ill prefer a softer, tube lens and focus system with a clean linear high bandwidth video chain.
If we can get both a super sharp and clean linear high bandwidth machine that for sure is to prefer, just that nobody has ever made that one.
I guess someone someday will have to build a Marquee with LUG tubes and G90 focus yokes, HD10E lenses and a complete MP modedet video chain / electronics. And run a nice clean digital video chain with as few processors as possible.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Why is there none of you guys who pick up on my post, and document me wrong on some of the week/ bad points i state related to the G90.? |
Because that's not how this works. No one is right until proven wrong; the burden of proof lies upon you to prove your position. I'm not a CRT guy, but your track record of grossly misinformed/biased/subjective comments about digital projectors in general (and JVC projectors) doesn't imbue me with any confidence that this situation is different. Prove me wrong 
| km987654 wrote: | | I said the whole discussion was silly not his questions. My points still stand. |
Given that the latter is a subset of the former, you're making even less sense than Kurt. 
_________________
| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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