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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | My opinion this is all about a paradigma shift where the old experts do not want to go to the blu ray age and beyond. New insights have come from Mike Parker but they are just not accepted....yet. The discussion I see goes about measuring disagreements and misunderstanding. That is typical for a change of the field. All the best wishes and try not to take it personal. Change will happen most likely. |
Why do you keep bringing Mike into these conversations? Nobody here is saying that Mike has not made a remarkable improvement to the Marquee.
It is you 2, with your bloviated statements trying to say the machine is more then what it is. If anything, you 2 are doing more to hurt Mikes reputation then help it.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | | My opinion this is all about a paradigma shift where the old experts do not want to go to the blu ray age and beyond. New insights have come from Mike Parker but they are just not accepted....yet. The discussion I see goes about measuring disagreements and misunderstanding. That is typical for a change of the field. All the best wishes and try not to take it personal. Change will happen most likely. |
Why do you keep bringing Mike into these conversations? Nobody here is saying that Mike has not made a remarkable improvement to the Marquee.
It is you 2, with your bloviated statements trying to say the machine is more then what it is. If anything, you 2 are doing more to hurt Mikes reputation then help it. |
I talked to Mike on the phone a few days ago and asked the same questions. What I am writing here that digitals are unnatural sharp and about sharpness of the Marquee with modifications is from first hand nothing more. That upscaled dvd is not blu ray etc. All Mikes words.
If I misunderstood Mike please say exactly where than I shall ask him to correct that. Very well possible because I am not so smart 
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701s->runco933->8500ultra->cinemax->9500mp->919 splitpack + cinemax
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | | My opinion this is all about a paradigma shift where the old experts do not want to go to the blu ray age and beyond. New insights have come from Mike Parker but they are just not accepted....yet. The discussion I see goes about measuring disagreements and misunderstanding. That is typical for a change of the field. All the best wishes and try not to take it personal. Change will happen most likely. |
Why do you keep bringing Mike into these conversations? Nobody here is saying that Mike has not made a remarkable improvement to the Marquee.
It is you 2, with your bloviated statements trying to say the machine is more then what it is. If anything, you 2 are doing more to hurt Mikes reputation then help it. |
I talked to Mike on the phone a few days ago and asked the same questions. What I am writing here that digitals are unnatural sharp and about sharpness of the Marquee with modifications is from first hand nothing more. That upscaled dvd is not blu ray etc. All Mikes words.
If I misunderstood Mike please say exactly where than I shall ask him to correct that. Very well possible because I am not so smart |
We already know those are Mikes words and have heard them from him many times over. Is he unable to make those comments himself or are you his parrot? All this stuff you are posting is old news. And we also know how much Mike hates digital so his opinion is bias on that point.
So your words, no matter where they came from on a few particular things are still just someones opinion and cannot be considered a matter of fact. And when they come from your mouth they have even less of an impact.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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I think you have to see before you believe  I am doing the experiment and am building a new Marquee but if I would take your sceptisism I would not even start and be stuck forever.
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701s->runco933->8500ultra->cinemax->9500mp->919 splitpack + cinemax
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | I think you have to see before you believe I am doing the experiment and am building a new Marquee but if I would take your sceptisism I would not even start and be stuck forever. |
Your kidding, right? I repair this stuff. I have a shop full of all different makes of crt projectors and some digitals and another digital on the way. I have all these projectors except for Barco. I have seen Mikes work. So mine is not skepticism by any means.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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So what exactly are you saying? Your ampro is better than a modified Marquee but it has worse bandwidth?
Your ampro is better because it has better bandwidth?
Please be specific. Why do you think your picture is better so we can learn from your experience.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | So what exactly are you saying? Your ampro is better than a modified Marquee but it has worse bandwidth?
Your ampro is better because it has better bandwidth?
Please be specific. Why do you think your picture is better so we can learn from your experience. |
You guys claim to be super smart so here you go. I am sure you will have no problem figuring it out.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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And on that note you guys are now just wasting my time. So I am going to leave you to whatever.
You will not here from me again unless you attempt to bad mouth another member here again which is what caused me to get involved. I do not care what projectors you think are good or bad but save your antics for private conversations amongst yourselves.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | I think you have to see before you believe I am doing the experiment and am building a new Marquee but if I would take your sceptisism I would not even start and be stuck forever. |
Bad video science backed by observations made solely with our flawed, relativistic human senses is proof of nothing.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | | I think you have to see before you believe I am doing the experiment and am building a new Marquee but if I would take your sceptisism I would not even start and be stuck forever. |
Bad video science backed by observations made solely with our flawed, relativistic human senses is proof of nothing. |
lol, looks you are the modern socrates.
afaik all mike has done is take the pj with the most potential (and stock very noisy) and go on from there filtering ps lines and come as far as needing no extra peaking (merely a guess a i dont own vnb and vim from mike) to resolve 1-1 as good as possible.
without mike the mq wouldnt be so popular im sure and lets not forget nash who came with the new bellows cause without him it would have been no projection for me 4 or 5 years ago.
i have stopped tinkering and just enjoy every single second from my marquee.
read the posts made by barclay66 cause he has shared some great mods that mostly involve killing noise but does wonders to pq as does the clm mod in nash`s thread.
mr ductape (macguiver  ) makes a lot of sense cause with motion picture you have gradual colour shifts so 1-1 is really not the holy grail.
one thing i haven`t figured out yet is why my modded hdm behaves so strange and neither could scott and barclay which i regard as very skilled and experienced persons.
i might send barclay my hdm once to play with
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1 answer always poses multiple questions.
marquee 9500ultra HD10L moome hdmi1.3 v3+ some mods.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:37 am Post subject: |
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hehe reread you`re maintenance thread i ain`t gonna make it easy on you`re old brain 
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1 answer always poses multiple questions.
marquee 9500ultra HD10L moome hdmi1.3 v3+ some mods.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: |
For me, there is NO CRT projector that is welcome in my theater any longer. For others, nothing BUT a CRT projector is welcome in their theater. For still others, they don't even really HAVE a theater. There's no sense arguing about some of these things because many of us simply have totally different interests and priorities.
Cheers,
SC |
Wow, I pour out my heart to you today and this is how you treat me. Some of us just have small pen$ses, I mean houses, and can't satisfy a home theater.  
I knew Kurt was razzing everybody on the G90 from the get go. I guess it got underneath some peoples skin. He has made his distaste for the G90 well known. It is unfortunate that he has only seen his from which to make his observation.
That being said, I know Craig is probably tired of talking G90 owners off the ledge based on Kurt's comments. Craig will admit that a fully modded out 9500 is probably better than a G90. The problem is getting to that point takes a lot time and work. A G90 is consistently good right out of the box. There is just not that many people that are willing to do what it takes to get a Marquee to that point. I asked tse once how big of a difference there is between pjs using the same lens/tube combo. His reply was not a lot of difference.
As for modded Marquees, I should start with Mike is not improving the pjs he is adapting them for our purposes. These pjs were built for a completely different market and can be all over the place. I always laughed when guys bitched about the 10L lens, when they were buying a surplus pj that was being used on a 48" wide rear pro screen. Anyway, if you want to go with a Marquee and mod it then be aware that it is not a quick and simple task. It can turn into a hobby in and of itself. This probably leads us back to Crabb's comment about tinkerers. I personally thought about it a couple of months ago, but I have moved on.
As for testing, I remember a thread six or so years ago where people were posting pics. IIRC tse said you could see the bandwidth by putting a test pattern in the upper left hand corner. None of the Barco owners posted a pic. I did with my 909 back in '10. IIRC I ran 2048x1526@60p and could still resolve the lines.
Honestly Curt, Crabb or Kal should close this thread. It has served its purpose. The OP wanted some info he got and is now long gone. Hopefully Craig or someone else picked up the G90s. If they have problems, then I am sure Craig could fix them.
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: |
Why don't you post some pictures to compare?
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For what? To compare patterns which 90% of the time have nothing to do with full motion video?
Don't you get it yet? This is why a "REAL" professional (Craig) chimed in. Just because you can make improvements in patterns does not mean you will see any of that in full motion video. So unless you want to sit there for hours looking at test patterns it has little to do with motion video.
Even screen shots are irrelevant. They are to dependent on the camera, person using the camera, room aesthetics, internet compression and even the displays others viewing them on. It has been stated here many, many times before by most professional. It shows you have been here for a while so I do not understand how you do not remember all this.
But by all means, you 2 compare all the test patterns you want and talk amongst your selves but don't for a minute think you will be able to convince any pros here that you have something magical. |
This is how I see it as well. I do think we can improve our projectors with modifications, but overall if you watch a movie on a 909 - G90 or 9500 it all looks pretty good right?! All have their own strength and weaknesses but overall the look damn good for todays blue ray's. I think the tinkerers sometimes overfocus on some weaknesses of the different projectors, that's okay but just say I prefer my own projector instead of bad mouthing others with your own experiences and facts.
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Philips vacuum cleaner | Trystar double toaster | Car radio with orange plastic memory arrows | Class A Fridge
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:22 am Post subject: |
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I just think the old clan finds focus and firm grip on the bundle electrons very important. That was true in the days of dvd. But nowadays if you see a perfect 1:1 from a Marquee with not that good a focus you have to wonder if the focus does contribute that much to MTF. You have to wonder if the blooming you see is not caused by the bandwidth.
I know that is something Mac and other old guys do not yet get. But in time...we will see
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | I just think the old clan finds focus and firm grip on the bundle electrons very important. That was true in the days of dvd. But nowadays if you see a perfect 1:1 from a Marquee with not that good a focus you have to wonder if the focus does contribute that much to MTF. You have to wonder if the blooming you see is not caused by the bandwidth.
I know that is something Mac and other old guys do not yet get. But in time...we will see |
Do you realize that most of these CRT pjs were designed to work with much better source material than home video? It is one of the reasons the 8" pjs got a reputation for not being able to display 1080p. Maybe Hog can chime in here with a comment on how much sim sources have improved over the years.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | I just think the old clan finds focus and firm grip on the bundle electrons very important. That was true in the days of dvd. But nowadays if you see a perfect 1:1 from a Marquee with not that good a focus you have to wonder if the focus does contribute that much to MTF. You have to wonder if the blooming you see is not caused by the bandwidth.
I know that is something Mac and other old guys do not yet get. But in time...we will see |
You had to bring me back into this by using me in your comment, didn't you.
I never said the Marquee couldn't do a near perfect 1:1 with Mikes mods along with poor focus. I actually said it was a great pattern generator. Just to heavy to use in the field for repair, lol.
What I then said is it has little to do in full motion video. Changes and improvements in patterns do not equal the same in full motion video. This is where you have a problem grasping things.
The other day I was on the back deck and there was this mole, running around, banging into things. He would run into something, back up, run again right into something else. He did this about 20 times until he ran off the deck cause there was nothing to hit. I immediately thought of redfox. The only difference is, redfox keeps climbing back up on the deck.
Did you figure out the Ampro yet mr fox? Maybe it would be better if you did not figure it out cause then you guys would be banging your heads trying to find used Ampros. But you may have a hard time finding them since the military is still using most of them.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, and did I mention that the stock Ampro is whisper quite too?
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Oh, and did I mention that the stock Ampro is whisper quite too? |
´
Touche!
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