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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: |
There are more threads like this. One is about focus and people are saying Kurt can not have a sharp picture with the thompson yokes. If you reread that thread it becomes obvious who has a fresh look on crt and who talks nonsense. Just saying look at this as if you are one month older 
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And here, I will even help you out with this. And it's from your master himself.
| stridsvognen wrote: | MTF is a good meassurement, but you can get that up by put sharper tubes, peak the video chain, and improve on focus magnets.
All that dont mean you have a clean high bandwidth linear non distorted video chain.
Ill prefer a softer, tube lens and focus system with a clean linear high bandwidth video chain.
If we can get both a super sharp and clean linear high bandwidth machine that for sure is to prefer, just that nobody has ever made that one.
I guess someone someday will have to build a Marquee with LUG tubes and G90 focus yokes, HD10E lenses and a complete MP modedet video chain / electronics. And run a nice clean digital video chain with as few processors as possible.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:12 am Post subject: |
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And Kurt, now that your buddy has me fired up I would like to ask you a few questions.
Why do you think that Craig only sells and services G90s and not other brand projectors?
And second, what are you actually trying to prove on here. Are you trying to prove that you have the most superior CRT on the planet? Or the most superior projector on the planet?
I think most of us would have no problem with you posting about your experiences and results with your experiments but it is when you start trying to compare your marquee to other projectors and bad mouthing and degrading them that it starts causing problems. If you could stick to just your findings a lot of the problems would go away.
You think you are correct just because no body will post patterns or screen shots in contradiction to what you state but this is further from the truth then you can image. So you have to ask your self what your actual goal is here, antagonizing others into negative responses or objective observations from your experiments.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Why don't you take the chalenge than and post some screenshots of 1:1 so we do not have to imagine how far from the truth we are? We all know that there are some scam artists in this phorum so proof yourself!
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Oh wait I do not mean the proof that your buddy posted about the 1:1 of a 909 we all know those where false and cheating it seems to be his character 
See here for the proof
https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=36685.html
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | When you will reread this thread again in some time* you will see how stupid and emotional some answers are 
There are more threads like this. One is about focus and people are saying Kurt can not have a sharp picture with the thompson yokes. If you reread that thread it becomes obvious who has a fresh look on crt and who talks nonsense. Just saying look at this as if you are one month older
My smileys where put there for the morons
* for some that might mean reading for the first time |
So how does that compare to someone recently trying to declare "a splitter either works or not, it could never cause a focus issue" and once another person other than me and Keith post otherwise, your very next post has a whole new angle stating you believe its the splitter... Dont worry about waiting til youre a month older, go back and check now
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Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Hahaha!! It is my character to cheat and lie is it? Thats really funny, others here may claim otherwise, and infact did when you stated i caused Gábor to drop a heap of cash into his XG. You made that part up in an attempt to support your line of thinking that is is my fault you made the choice to spend money testing other avenues...
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Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | And Kurt, now that your buddy has me fired up I would like to ask you a few questions.
Why do you think that Craig only sells and services G90s and not other brand projectors?
And second, what are you actually trying to prove on here. Are you trying to prove that you have the most superior CRT on the planet? Or the most superior projector on the planet?
I think most of us would have no problem with you posting about your experiences and results with your experiments but it is when you start trying to compare your marquee to other projectors and bad mouthing and degrading them that it starts causing problems. If you could stick to just your findings a lot of the problems would go away.
You think you are correct just because no body will post patterns or screen shots in contradiction to what you state but this is further from the truth then you can image. So you have to ask your self what your actual goal is here, antagonizing others into negative responses or objective observations from your experiments. |
Be happy to reply.
I dont think Craig only work with G90, if i made it sound like that somewhere let me know and ill correct it.
Im not trying to prove anything here, i try to stay on topic, and state what i think is relevant for this thread, with my experience with the G90. I did not really involve the Marquee, but i did compare it to my JVC.
The Marquee is a totally different game, there is not even any meaning to start comparing it to the G90 anymore.
Everybody who have seen a G90 knows it trows a Sharp bright Picture, but it dont look to resolve much of the source material.
Take a few looks in the screen shot thread, and Wonder why it looks like it do, there is nothing wrong in liking a G90, its just far from able to do what i think a reference projector should do with Blu Ray material in todays wold.
The degrading of different projectors, is not my work, its the work of time, what was reference 10-20 years back dont always have to be so today with what new formats we have now.
I think anyone who is thinking about CRT today should take a good look at what other options there is before going all into this hobby.
I know you and others are trying to cover all my actions in this forum in one single post, but lets keep it apart, and relevant to the threads they belong in, ill be happy to reply to each specifik topic in the right threads.
Last edited by stridsvognen on Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:03 am Post subject: |
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I am no expert just a hobbyist. I did not buy a G90 because it was to noisy and I could not build a good hushbox. If you can than the G90 is a nice projector in my opinion. I bought a Cine max because it was pretty silent and almost the same price in my case. I am very very vey happy with that choice. I do believe Kurt as he says the modified marquee is a whole different game. If not I will say so.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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This thread is turning out to be worse than some of the OT battles! Thanks go to strids and redfox for not only keeping the thread alive, but continually taking it to new heights of ridiculousness!
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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You should talk to Kurt or me on skype or something. Kurt is just teasing but people take it very personally. I back Kurt up because he is a fine guy when you come to know him. He has very valuable personal experience with everything he says. Apart from that he is very passionate and that shows sometimes too.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | I am no expert just a hobbyist. I did not buy a G90 because it was to noisy and I could not build a good hushbox. If you can than the G90 is a nice projector in my opinion. I bought a Cine max because it was pretty silent and almost the same price in my case. I am very very vey happy with that choice. I do believe Kurt as he says the modified marquee is a whole different game. If not I will say so. |
That's right, you are no expert so you should be cautious with your comments.
I also agree that Kurt appears to have a great pattern generator and if it wasn't so big and heavy I could use one when repairing other stuff. But for real video it has minimal advantages from other projectors. The Marquee as a stock unit was horrible and it took someone thousands and thousands of hours just to bring it up to the performance of other stock machines. You guys are lucky someone loved it so much to invest so much time. Take that person away and you are back to what? That G90 doesn't sound so noisy now, does it. Then again, I don't think it is that noisy like you both claim. I think you may have had a bad fan or your hearing is just f*ck*** up. Of course a fan mod is way cheaper then all the crap a Marquee needs to try to shoot a G90 picture. Yet the Marquee still does not have all the control adjustments on the beam as the G90.
My stock Ampro still shoots a better picture over a fully modified Marquee. I don't have to dick with it at all. Just sit back and enjoy some flicks.
Frankly I have no idea how some of you guys can even watch any real video. All I can picture in my mind is pausing a 1.5 hour movie so many times to make adjustments it ends up taking 2 days to get through it.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: |
I dont think Craig only work with G90, i i made it sound like that somewhere let me know and ill correct it.
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Still just a jokester I see.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | | I am no expert just a hobbyist. I did not buy a G90 because it was to noisy and I could not build a good hushbox. If you can than the G90 is a nice projector in my opinion. I bought a Cine max because it was pretty silent and almost the same price in my case. I am very very vey happy with that choice. I do believe Kurt as he says the modified marquee is a whole different game. If not I will say so. |
That's right, you are no expert so you should be cautious with your comments.
I also agree that Kurt appears to have a great pattern generator and if it wasn't so big and heavy I could use one when repairing other stuff. But for real video it has minimal advantages from other projectors. The Marquee as a stock unit was horrible and it took someone thousands and thousands of hours just to bring it up to the performance of other stock machines. You guys are lucky someone loved it so much to invest so much time. Take that person away and you are back to what? That G90 doesn't sound so noisy now, does it. Then again, I don't think it is that noisy like you both claim. I think you may have had a bad fan or your hearing is just f*ck*** up. Of course a fan mod is way cheaper then all the crap a Marquee needs to try to shoot a G90 picture. Yet the Marquee still does not have all the control adjustments on the beam as the G90.
My stock Ampro still shoots a better picture over a fully modified Marquee. I don't have to dick with it at all. Just sit back and enjoy some flicks.
Frankly I have no idea how some of you guys can even watch any real video. All I can picture in my mind is pausing a 1.5 hour movie so many times to make adjustments it ends up taking 2 days to get through it. |
Why don't you post some pictures to compare?
Apart from that I can repair my own Cine 9 as I repaired the convergence board, the EHT and the SMPS. I also repair other electronics and have a university background in physics. But I do not need to dick about it 
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: |
Why don't you post some pictures to compare?
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For what? To compare patterns which 90% of the time have nothing to do with full motion video?
Don't you get it yet? This is why a "REAL" professional (Craig) chimed in. Just because you can make improvements in patterns does not mean you will see any of that in full motion video. So unless you want to sit there for hours looking at test patterns it has little to do with motion video.
Even screen shots are irrelevant. They are to dependent on the camera, person using the camera, room aesthetics, internet compression and even the displays others viewing them on. It has been stated here many, many times before by most professional. It shows you have been here for a while so I do not understand how you do not remember all this.
But by all means, you 2 compare all the test patterns you want and talk amongst your selves but don't for a minute think you will be able to convince any pros here that you have something magical.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Personally I think you do not really understand what Kurt is trying to explain you with his MTF pictures of the 1:1.
At least it is the only explanation I can find for this debate and the way it goes personal over and over again.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Frankly I have no idea how some of you guys can even watch any real video. All I can picture in my mind is pausing a 1.5 hour movie so many times to make adjustments it ends up taking 2 days to get through it. |
I came to realize over the years that there are two different groups of people on this site.
First, there are the "home theater enthusiasts". Some have CRT projectors, some have digital. Regardless, they see whatever projector they have as a means to end: Watching movies. Even some that are CRT "fanboys" still love watching movies as much as playing with projectors.
The other group are "tinkerers". This group doesn't really watch movies much, if at all. They don't have "home theater" as a hobby so much as tinkering with CRT projectors, HTPCs, and looking at test patterns, IS the hobby. They're like a car guy with a car that never leaves the garage because the guy just wrenches on it perpetually. "Cars" isn't their hobby so much as "wrenching on their cars" is the hobby.
Now, there's nothing at all wrong with a guy just looks at test patterns and never watches a movie, or a car guy that just wrenches on the car and never finishes it or drives it, but there's a fundamental difference in priorities and values between the two groups. Those differences in priorities then make it hard for the two groups to even have a comprehensible conversation with each other.
This thread is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. A complete novice posts and asks for advice on buying a couple of G90's. Some good advice was given on pros, cons, risks, and rewards, and the OP chose to make a low offer and ultimately pass on the G90's. The thread then devolved into a discussion on whether it was appropriate to consider whether the projector purchase made sense in a financial sense (it may or may not be, but it's certainly not for one person to decide whether it makes sense for another), some discussion on whether it's affordable and supporting your hobby and your hobbies making money (which IMHO had little to no relevance to the subject), and then a suggesting on the unsuitability of a G90 as a home theater projector. When something like that utterly ridiculous comes out, it's clear that some are simply totally out of touch, out of their depth, and clearly have completely, utterly different priorities than most.
For me, there is NO CRT projector that is welcome in my theater any longer. For others, nothing BUT a CRT projector is welcome in their theater. For still others, they don't even really HAVE a theater. There's no sense arguing about some of these things because many of us simply have totally different interests and priorities.
Cheers,
SC
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | Frankly I have no idea how some of you guys can even watch any real video. All I can picture in my mind is pausing a 1.5 hour movie so many times to make adjustments it ends up taking 2 days to get through it. |
I came to realize over the years that there are two different groups of people on this site.
First, there are the "home theater enthusiasts". Some have CRT projectors, some have digital. Regardless, they see whatever projector they have as a means to end: Watching movies. Even some that are CRT "fanboys" still love watching movies as much as playing with projectors.
The other group are "tinkerers". This group doesn't really watch movies much, if at all. They don't have "home theater" as a hobby so much as tinkering with CRT projectors, HTPCs, and looking at test patterns, IS the hobby. They're like a car guy with a car that never leaves the garage because the guy just wrenches on it perpetually. "Cars" isn't their hobby so much as "wrenching on their cars" is the hobby.
Now, there's nothing at all wrong with a guy just looks at test patterns and never watches a movie, or a car guy that just wrenches on the car and never finishes it or drives it, but there's a fundamental difference in priorities and values between the two groups. Those differences in priorities then make it hard for the two groups to even have a comprehensible conversation with each other.
This thread is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. A complete novice posts and asks for advice on buying a couple of G90's. Some good advice was given on pros, cons, risks, and rewards, and the OP chose to make a low offer and ultimately pass on the G90's. The thread then devolved into a discussion on whether it was appropriate to consider whether the projector purchase made sense in a financial sense (it may or may not be, but it's certainly not for one person to decide whether it makes sense for another), some discussion on whether it's affordable and supporting your hobby and your hobbies making money (which IMHO had little to no relevance to the subject), and then a suggesting on the unsuitability of a G90 as a home theater projector. When something like that utterly ridiculous comes out, it's clear that some are simply totally out of touch, out of their depth, and clearly have completely, utterly different priorities than most.
For me, there is NO CRT projector that is welcome in my theater any longer. For others, nothing BUT a CRT projector is welcome in their theater. For still others, they don't even really HAVE a theater. There's no sense arguing about some of these things because many of us simply have totally different interests and priorities.
Cheers,
SC |
I couldn't agree more. But the problem is, when the tinkerer thinks he knows more then the professional in the field and then makes negative responses as such. The tinkerer then tries to spew what he thinks he knows to the new people wanting to enter said adventure and the opinion is tainted with nothing more then opinion and then tries to contradict said professional.
So I think there are more then just the 2 groups indicated. Now there is nothing wrong with the tinkerer stating his own findings but when he then tries to force them on others as fact it becomes a problem.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | Personally I think you do not really understand what Kurt is trying to explain you with his MTF pictures of the 1:1.
At least it is the only explanation I can find for this debate and the way it goes personal over and over again. |
With all due respect, I do not think you or Kurt understand why nobody cares any longer what Kurt is trying to explain.
I and others have explained to Kurt multiple times why screenshots of on/off patterns and the throwing around of the "MTF" term without any real measuring equipment serves little to no useful purpose.
Further, his "until you show me your own screen shots, your opinion doesn't matter" attitude has won him no friends. He makes these claims no matter what any expert or those with far more experience tells him, so he's turned people off what I think he's trying to accomplish. The reality is that Craig Rounds has probably forgotten more about video and CRT projectors than Kurt knows now, so when he argues with Craig and makes very bold claims like that the G90 isn't suitable for home theater (which is ridiculous, BTW), people stop listening to him. He's called his credibility into question and made himself irrelevant by making claims like this.
SC
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | I couldn't agree more. But the problem is, when the tinkerer thinks he knows more then the professional in the field and then makes negative responses as such. The tinkerer then tries to spew what he thinks he knows to the new people wanting to enter said adventure and the opinion is tainted with nothing more then opinion and then tries to contradict said professional.
So I think there are more then just the 2 groups indicated. Now there is nothing wrong with the tinkerer stating his own findings but when he then tries to force them on others as fact it becomes a problem. |
I totally agree, Mac. I just stated as much in my last post, written while you were posting.
SC
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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My opinion this is all about a paradigma shift where the old experts do not want to go to the blu ray age and beyond. New insights have come from Mike Parker but they are just not accepted....yet. The discussion I see goes about measuring disagreements and misunderstanding. That is typical for a change of the field. All the best wishes and try not to take it personal. Change will happen most likely.
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