CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

Melifluonze · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:20 pm Post subject: Going to try blending...

Guys...

I haven't moved the new projectors downstairs yet, but I'm getting there. Carpet goes in this week (I hope), then I'll move them down.

BUT... I just picked up two TVOne C2-2255a units and I'm going to try blending. I can't stand the monster sitting right over my head in the center of the room. The thought of using the full tube faces of each projector and having them much closer to the screen and on the left and right seems HUGE to me! I've worked my way through most of the blending thread started by Nash, and here's where I'm at. I'm going to try to get the color tracking on both projectors equal with the same source using the projector controls (not optimal, but might work).

1. Get greyscale correct with a colorimeter for both projectors

2. Use one as the "reference" and fiddle with the other until it's equal by eye.

Then I'll use the chain pictured below to drive the projectors... Essentially a source into a DVDO DUO to split the signal, then into the DVI-I inputs of the C2-2255a's and then into the projectors.

Questions I have are:

1. Can I feed RGB from the C2-2255a's directly into the VIM's of the 9500LC Ultras? Do they support RGB with combined sync?

2. Do I need to strip HDCP if I'm going to go into the RGB inputs of the VIM (straight)? What about if I go into the Moome cards?

(2a. Which is the best path? Directly into the VIM RGB analog inputs from the C2-2255a's or in through the Moome???)

3. Will the C2-2255a's give me enough gamma correction in case I need to tweak something that I can't get right with the projectors themselves?

4. Are the TVOne processors still AFU, or is there a possible path through them that looks alright (Gosh, I hope they're alright, 'cause I spent a wad on them....)

5. How should I be setting up the C2-2255a's? Anything special I need to be concerned about, any pitfalls?

Anything else that anyone sees wrong with this picture? I'm going to run straight 1080p @ 60Hz through everything. I'm not sure why I'd want to go exotic... Comment on that as well, please...

And no, I'm out of money, so I'm not going to get two Lumagens or something... can't afford that. I'm going to have to make due with what I have (listed).

I'm also concerned about the discussion about offsetting the image towards the center of the tube face and all that... that seems like it might defeat the purpose of blending a bit... how much of an offset do you really need???

What was the final word on this RGB then BGR tube configuration? Is that really necessary? I've seen that it's not, but what's the opinion (not the theory, but the actual results, please).

Thanks a TON for any input you may have!

- Melifluonze

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

you'll need two DVDO Duos for separate CMS to each TV one. It doesnt allow separate CMS via each output. At least i don't think it does.

Athanasios

Melifluonze · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:48 pm Post subject:

I heard that... but are you positive that the TVOne boxes (or the projectors themselves) won't be good enough? Isn't there some CMS in the TVOne?

I also read in the megathread that if you get the projectors to track to each other natively, then you don't need CMS on each channel...

I suppose good enough is in the eye of the beholder... And I'm probably right there with you in my eye for detecting the defects...

Melifluonze · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:49 pm Post subject:

Oh, and could I get started with what I have and then add the second DVDO to the mix when I trip over one?

Can I run one output of one DVDO into the next (i.e. letting the first DVDO split the signal, and the second do the CMS)?

stridsvognen · Guest

Is it not possible to run 1080P 24hz source direct out of a OPPO player, using both HDMI outputs, and direct into each TVOne, maybe put a 20$ stripper betwen on each output, and then convert to 60hz in the TVOne units, and please use the moome HDMI input, as it has the best DAC you will be able to find.

Melifluonze · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:05 pm Post subject:

So, are we talking about something more like this?

I'm placing the DVDOs after the TVOnes to make sure the CMS is in more than an 8 bit domain, but to be honest, I don't even know if the DVDO is more than 8 bits...

Should the DVDO's be before the TVOnes?

If I use the Moomes then I don't really have to worry about HDCP it seems...

stridsvognen · Guest

I would keep the DVDO out of the chain, and do your best with the projector options, you already have the TVOne processors in the chain, so ill guess that you will be able to pass a more natural and dynamic image with less processing.

The stripper should only be if the TVOnes have issues with HDCP.

Depending what oppo player you use, the HDMI splitter/ stripper might be a good idea, as some dont output the same quality on both HDMI outputs, as far as i know thats the case with the players using Qdeo processor.

The OPPO 103D will do right as long as its 1080P 24hz source direct, other than that it also processes each output different.

There is som huge quality trade in for a CMS in the chain, but if its impossible to match the projectors, you might need to do the trade.

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

Melifluonze · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:30 pm Post subject:

Alright... So then the assumption would be that the HDCP may be OK all the way through the chain because the Moome cards are able to handle it at the projector.

The TVOne's seem to have some sort of CMS in them, but I believe at the end of Nash's thread he says that the CMS is messed up (due to some issue at level 128, some kind of folding). I'm not too clear on that.

I like the simple chain, and the TVOne boxes seem to be very capable... I just don't think they're better than 8 bit per color (24 bit), and I don't know yet whether that would make a difference.

Melifluonze · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:37 pm Post subject:

Nash, I hear you...

(see below)

What about CMS with the boards you can get for the projectors? (or am I mis-understanding something)

Do you see gradients during fades?

Also, it looks like the C2-7100 will only accept up to 1280 x 1024 via DVI-D... that's not good, I guess... I'm trying to figure out if the units that I have (C2-2255a) will do better. Or maybe this doesn't matter???

stridsvognen · Guest

I cant see that the DVDO CMS is advanced enough to correct the calibration if the 2 projectors dont track pretty much the same. Or did they add the 5X5X5 or higher recently.?

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

Melifluonze · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:12 pm Post subject:

No... I just encountered the C2-7100 on ebay for $1K. That's a steal! But I don't like the bandwidth limitation on the digital input. That just kills it as a processor, I think... I was going to get it instead of the C2-2255a's, but I changed my mind.

I do have the C2-2255a's coming. I'm committed to try this.

- M

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

The C2-7100 is fine , it does accept 1080p.

Here is the manual

http://tvone.crmdesk.com/image.aspx?mode=file&id=354

So your good.

Melifluonze · Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:28 am Post subject:

Well, the information I tripped over was on the FAQ of the TVOne site...

Check out the DVI section of the specifications in the manual you provided. Maximum input type for DVI-D is 1080i for the C2-7100. Yikes...

It looks like you can run 1080p into the analog section (DVI-A), which is odd...

From the manual...

18.5 Input/Output Range

RGBHV (DVI-A) Connection:
Computer Resolutions Any from 640x480 to 2048x2048 including HDTV
Resolutions 480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
Max Vertical Refresh Rate 250Hz. Max Horizontal Frequency 150kHz

DVI-D Connection:
Computer Resolutions any from 640x480 to 1280x1024@60 including HDTV
Resolutions 480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i. Maximum pixel rate: 108MHz

I ended up passing on the unit... maybe someone else wants to take a chance on it.

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

Hmm, I always assumed it would accept 1080p Via the DVI. That is why they came out with the C-2xxxA series then.

Well you could use then two External moomes to go 1080p to the TV ones from the DVDO Duo's and then out RGBHV to the Marquee's from the C2-7100.

So BD player>, Splitter>, 2 DVDO DUO'S>, 2 MOOME EXT-HD>, C2-7100 >,2 RGBHV to Marquee's this will also give you the ability to try to upscale to 4K via the RGBHV .

Athanasios

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

No I remember that this will accept 1080p up to 30fps. i remember on the AVS thread it was possible.

I think some of the literature was wrong.

here is the spec sheet.

ftp://ftp.tvoneftp.com/SpecSheets/SpecSheet-C2-7100-7110.pdf

It does accept 1080p

Old Site

http://www.tvone.ru/c2-7100-keyfeatures.shtml

That unit is discontinued now so the new site has no info on it.

Nashou

Melifluonze · Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:02 pm Post subject: 3D with TVOne!!!

Hey Nash,

No argument here. Things are underspec'd all the time, and you're the one with experience here, direct with TVOne.

I ended up buying the C2-2255a units anyways, and left the C2-7100 alone. It's still listed on ebay, if anyone wants to give blending a shot! It's one heck of a deal, really, if it does support 1080p-60 with DVI. Just do a search on C2-7100.

Hey, by the way... with these units, I can split the HDMI signal, send it to both units and split a side-by side or top/bottom 3D signal, scale it, aspect change it, and run two stacked projectors with polarizers to create the 3D system I wanted to do!

HOLY SH*T!!!

- M

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

Yeah the new firm wear allows 3D. Its on mine but I don't have 3D capable lumagen's
or Blu Ray player.

Nashou

Melifluonze · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:50 am Post subject:

Ok. Found a second Duo. It's coming with a Darblet... Is that worth sticking up front in the processing chain?