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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | What i have always wondered about, when i was thinking about side stacking, is if pressing the lines together in one side of the image, and the other side on the other projector dont effect sharpness, the ability to have the same scan line thickness, and space between.?
| Nashou66 wrote: | | Yeah but more keystone means less phosphor being used. Thats all. |
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Not just less phosphor, Nash…. When you compress the raster on one side, it does decrease sharpness (MTF) on one side (and increases it on the other). But, the same effect is in play with vertical keystone, so unless you're doing a rear-projection setup with a perfectly rectangular raster, you're always going to have an imbalance of sharpness from one edge to another. Of course, you have 5 degrees or so of horizontal keystone on the red and blue tubes anyway (in addition to vertical keystone from vertical throw offset). Besides, do you look right at the edge of the screen? Typically not. The lenses are also softer at the edges, too.
That said, I *am* wondering why Curt mounted the projectors where he did. At first, I was thinking he was planning to blend at some point, but the throw would be all wrong. So, not sure.
As for the 909, like Curt mentioned, it has huge ranges to its geometry controls. When it was designed, it was marketed almost exclusively to the simulation market (and had a price to match that market).
I still vividly remember one of the last big VR setups I was involved in on the east coast: Two 909's, edge-blended on a huge curved rear-projected Stewart curved screen. The screen was concave to the viewers; convex to the projectors, probably 7 feet tall, and sat on the floor. There was probably a foot of difference between the focal plane at screen center compared to the edges, yet the focus and geometry were spot-on edge to edge. The raster was crazy distorted.
I'm pretty sure each projector was running 1600x1200… In stereo. So, with like a 300 pixel blend zone, I think it was like a 2900x1200 display. All driven by a mega-buck SGI the size of a refrigerator and rack full of source and switching equipment, along with an AMX system to control it all.
I don't recall the refresh rate, but I think it was 100hz for stereo (50hz each eye). So, 1600x1200@100hz, and it was plenty sharp. Not digital sharp, but you could easily read white on blue/black BASH prompt text from the SGI. That's why I'm always confused when people talk about 909's not being able to properly resolve 1080p@60. I saw 1600x1200@100hz very well, almost 200mhz pixel clock very well-resolved, so how is that it supposedly can't do 1920x1080p@60 - with a pixel clock only 2/3 of what I saw.
SC
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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1600x1200 is incredibly sharp on these Crabb yes, even at 100Hz
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RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:27 am Post subject: |
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2 new Moome cards ordered! 
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Curt,
this setup screams for a blend !
A blend would also give lots of light output but your screen should be changed to cinemascope then.
Stack = maybe softer as it has to be perfectly aligned ?
What will be the preferred resolution ?
cheers
ElTopo
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | Curt,
this setup screams for a blend !
A blend would also give lots of light output but your screen should be changed to cinemascope then.
Stack = maybe softer as it has to be perfectly aligned ?
What will be the preferred resolution ?
cheers
ElTopo |
I have experience with both. A stack is brighter than a blend but a blend is sharper than a stack.
Nashou
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Right now I'm doing the stack. Frankly, I don't need the extra brightness, so unlike Cliff, I'll be turning down the contrast to save the tubes. Again though, I probably will run this more in 2 days if I have a meet than on my own. Considering it will be easy to change projector locations (my helper will kill me!) with keeping the ceiling open, if sound installs pick up, I'll definitely give it a try, but right now this whole thing is done on a very cheap budget.
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hal
Joined: 28 Nov 2012
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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Curt, I know that you have said that you want the stack, BUT Ebay has a TVOne C27100 for $565.00 That would get you the VERY cheap budget blend.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:35 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe Curt has any calibration equipment or advanced equipment at least. Plus if I have learned anything from the crazy Greek to the north it is that blending is almost a full time hobby unto itself. 
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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hal
Joined: 28 Nov 2012
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:48 am Post subject: |
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With all his friends and forum members it would be up and running. It would give me a reason to drive 2 hours north to see two Barco's.. The Northwest new forum gathering.... He has the WALL of Sound ready to go..
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:57 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'd have to get a calibrator in. Put it this way: If the blend box is $565 now, it will be $400 in a year.. and $300 the year after..
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| hal wrote: | | Curt, I know that you have said that you want the stack, BUT Ebay has a TVOne C27100 for $565.00 That would get you the VERY cheap budget blend. |
Probably wont need that with the SEMU units, assuming he has a couple laying around...
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Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Yeah, I'd have to get a calibrator in. Put it this way: If the blend box is $565 now, it will be $400 in a year.. and $300 the year after.. |
Maybe, as it can be used with digitals. I could see some wacko trying to blend a bunch of cheap DLPs to get 4k. 
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:49 am Post subject: |
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Problem there is Spanky a lot of the ones I have seen have an edge around the image around about 1 pixel width wide.
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Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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hansilili
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 302
Location: Köln, Germany
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Yeah, I'd have to get a calibrator in. Put it this way: If the blend box is $565 now, it will be $400 in a year.. and $300 the year after.. |
Maybe, as it can be used with digitals. I could see some wacko trying to blend a bunch of cheap DLPs to get 4k. |
In fact it's exactly the other way around. You need a 4k projector to warp, crop or blend a 1080p signal without loss of information or aliasing. Edge blending will see a revival then. I will need that to fit a digital picture on my curved screen. These products http://www.vnstw.com/en/products_view.asp?ID=134&BKID=68 seem to be more affordaböe than TVone.
Cheers
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:24 am Post subject: |
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You can get special lenses for digitals on curved screens.
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Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2649
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Navitar makes some excellent lenses for digital projectors being used with curved screens. I've been researching them since I plan on doing a cinemascope curved screen in the theater, and odds are I will be using a digital in there.
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | That's why I'm always confused when people talk about 909's not being able to properly resolve 1080p@60. I saw 1600x1200@100hz very well, almost 200mhz pixel clock very well-resolved, so how is that it supposedly can't do 1920x1080p@60 - with a pixel clock only 2/3 of what I saw.
SC |
So basically each PJ was outputting 800 x 1200; correct? (blended that's 1600 x 1200) If so, that's only 95-100mhz for each PJ. It should be no problem to resolve that.
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