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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:02 pm Post subject: Marquee questions to the experts! |
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Hi I see Curt has these very nice army model Late model (2005) Marquee 8500/8510 Ultra VDC CRT video projector.
First: is it true that if I put LC Lugs in it with a pin adjustment on the lug? to make this a 9500lc? Or are there more upgrades needed? Do the HFQ900's fit somehow too?
Second: Can I modify the video chain to the level of the Mike Parker mods myself or is it still possible to buy these mods somewhere?
Thanks!
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hello
You would need complete LC tube assemblies, HD10-series lenses and some metal bits to go nine inch with these. The neckboards would need small mods to go with LUGs. Not sure what Mike Parker is doing these days.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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If i were you i would buy that nice Vidikron Vision One instead, who already got new green and red LCP tubes installed.
There is not much need for LUG tubes in a Marquee if moddet right.
Those army models also have the new model neckboards, who dont have the option to be moddet to the super high bandwidth that the old neckboards will do.
Ill say you cant do those mods yourself, as no one knows what to do, other than Mike, so best to ask him if he will make a set for you.
I think that those 8500 Ultra machines is mostly ment as part machines, you will be able to use it to convert a non ultra to a ultra, and have spare HVPS and LVPS.
Other option is to look around, and there seems to be plenty of super cheep 9500LC machines over there, so grab a few of these and you will have a spare part machine to.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:10 am Post subject: |
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He I saw another post here last night where did it go? It reminded me of the fact that to have a good Marquee including spareparts one has to invest too. I was hoping for a cheap solution to play with the impressive video chain. After seeing the schematics I would like to see it in action. I liked that they had no ABL stuff, no black or white clamping and not even line drivers if I remember well. In the Barco chain they are all there and each requires an opamp limiting bandwidth.
The whole lug thing with the extra grid is that to lower the capacity and to increase the bandwidth too I wonder?
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | He I saw another post here last night where did it go? It reminded me of the fact that to have a good Marquee including spareparts one has to invest too. I was hoping for a cheap solution to play with the impressive video chain. After seeing the schematics I would like to see it in action. I liked that they had no ABL stuff, no black or white clamping and not even line drivers if I remember well. In the Barco chain they are all there and each requires an opamp limiting bandwidth.
The whole lug thing with the extra grid is that to lower the capacity and to increase the bandwidth too I wonder? |
Generally every projector has a kind of clamping, as it is important for the signal DC restoration, actually the marquee has clamping on both the neckboards and on the VIM, the newer boards, which are "so bad" according Stridsvognen, only uses single clamping only on the VIM.
The extra grid on the LUG is inteded to help keeping tighter focus, nothing to do with capacitance.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | He I saw another post here last night where did it go? It reminded me of the fact that to have a good Marquee including spareparts one has to invest too. I was hoping for a cheap solution to play with the impressive video chain. After seeing the schematics I would like to see it in action. I liked that they had no ABL stuff, no black or white clamping and not even line drivers if I remember well. In the Barco chain they are all there and each requires an opamp limiting bandwidth.
The whole lug thing with the extra grid is that to lower the capacity and to increase the bandwidth too I wonder? |
Generally every projector has a kind of clamping, as it is important for the signal DC restoration, actually the marquee has clamping on both the neckboards and on the VIM, the newer boards, which are "so bad" according Stridsvognen, only uses single clamping only on the VIM.
The extra grid on the LUG is inteded to help keeping tighter focus, nothing to do with capacitance. |
Yes that is what I mean single clamping only on the input. I tried yesterday to replace the clamping opamp on the output board and the video signal came through fine as far as I could see but the ABL G2 regulating was off. I think I found my mistake after rethinking. I was so careful but I dropped a current amplifying opamp in place while the clamping opamp was a voltage amplifier. The ABL measure line tried to pull the voltage down on the output of that opamp but that did not work hence the G2 regulation was far off. Now I am searching for a voltage amplifier opamp that can do 1 GHz or better like the EL5166. Any suggestions as it seems you know a lot about this.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | He I saw another post here last night where did it go? It reminded me of the fact that to have a good Marquee including spareparts one has to invest too. I was hoping for a cheap solution to play with the impressive video chain. After seeing the schematics I would like to see it in action. I liked that they had no ABL stuff, no black or white clamping and not even line drivers if I remember well. In the Barco chain they are all there and each requires an opamp limiting bandwidth.
The whole lug thing with the extra grid is that to lower the capacity and to increase the bandwidth too I wonder? |
Generally every projector has a kind of clamping, as it is important for the signal DC restoration, actually the marquee has clamping on both the neckboards and on the VIM, the newer boards, which are "so bad" according Stridsvognen, only uses single clamping only on the VIM.
The extra grid on the LUG is inteded to help keeping tighter focus, nothing to do with capacitance. |
Sorry but let me know where i wrote the new neckboards is bad, and ill correct it.
That has for sure not been my intention, as i have never seen one in action.
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | Any suggestions as it seems you know a lot about this. |
Unfortunately I know very little about what is currently available on the market...
But I don't think there are many voltage feedback (VF) opamps in that frequency range, in high frequency applications the current feedback (CF) is the way to go, because the CF arrangement is less sensitive to the stray capacitances, which you can't eliminate from any real circuit.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | gjaky wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | He I saw another post here last night where did it go? It reminded me of the fact that to have a good Marquee including spareparts one has to invest too. I was hoping for a cheap solution to play with the impressive video chain. After seeing the schematics I would like to see it in action. I liked that they had no ABL stuff, no black or white clamping and not even line drivers if I remember well. In the Barco chain they are all there and each requires an opamp limiting bandwidth.
The whole lug thing with the extra grid is that to lower the capacity and to increase the bandwidth too I wonder? |
Generally every projector has a kind of clamping, as it is important for the signal DC restoration, actually the marquee has clamping on both the neckboards and on the VIM, the newer boards, which are "so bad" according Stridsvognen, only uses single clamping only on the VIM.
The extra grid on the LUG is inteded to help keeping tighter focus, nothing to do with capacitance. |
Sorry but let me know where i wrote the new neckboards is bad, and ill correct it.
That has for sure not been my intention, as i have never seen one in action. |
-> | Quote: | | Those army models also have the new model neckboards, who dont have the option to be moddet to the super high bandwidth that the old neckboards will do. |
I was surprised to see this as well 
So I found again the original thread about those "new" neckboards: link
It is said they are doing fine with 240MHz pixel clock.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | | Any suggestions as it seems you know a lot about this. |
Unfortunately I know very little about what is currently available on the market...
But I don't think there are many voltage feedback (VF) opamps in that frequency range, in high frequency applications the current feedback (CF) is the way to go, because the CF arrangement is less sensitive to the stray capacitances, which you can't eliminate from any real circuit. |
Ok I was not able to find much so that explains. I might go back to a dirty solution because it was a gain 1 opamp I could completely remove it. However if the ABL measure puls sinks current than without the opamp the voltage will be below the original reference I guess. So I have to make the ABL sink less current by adjusting resistor vallues. That might be easy because there is a black level pot there. Turning the pot with the current opamp did not have any effect but without it it might work very well. Anyway I have to have an experimental setup to try these things as it is easy to blow some transistor anywhere.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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However I can say to the CRT world that removing the clamp opamp did not improver the bandwidth in my case. I did project the testpattern with the g2 high and I did not see much difference so either it is realy the hybrid or/and I need an input board.
@Gjaky did you do your Nec bandwidth tests with the Moome input board?
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | @Gjaky did you do your Nec bandwidth tests with the Moome input board? |
No, my XG is ill and it doesn't even resolves 720P, the problem is on the neckboards, but the two neckboards I bought as spare behaved the same... The only thing I can tell is that the moome card doesn't make the things even worse  By the way it still produces a quite enjoyable picture with movies.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | gjaky wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | He I saw another post here last night where did it go? It reminded me of the fact that to have a good Marquee including spareparts one has to invest too. I was hoping for a cheap solution to play with the impressive video chain. After seeing the schematics I would like to see it in action. I liked that they had no ABL stuff, no black or white clamping and not even line drivers if I remember well. In the Barco chain they are all there and each requires an opamp limiting bandwidth.
The whole lug thing with the extra grid is that to lower the capacity and to increase the bandwidth too I wonder? |
Generally every projector has a kind of clamping, as it is important for the signal DC restoration, actually the marquee has clamping on both the neckboards and on the VIM, the newer boards, which are "so bad" according Stridsvognen, only uses single clamping only on the VIM.
The extra grid on the LUG is inteded to help keeping tighter focus, nothing to do with capacitance. |
Sorry but let me know where i wrote the new neckboards is bad, and ill correct it.
That has for sure not been my intention, as i have never seen one in action. |
-> | Quote: | | Those army models also have the new model neckboards, who dont have the option to be moddet to the super high bandwidth that the old neckboards will do. |
I was surprised to see this as well
So I found again the original thread about those "new" neckboards: link
It is said they are doing fine with 240MHz pixel clock. |
Who have a screen shot of those boards douing 240Mhz.? I only seen Mike run that high with his generator.
I also understood you pointed out they had 7 peakings onboard, that indicates there must be a bandwidth problem, as the old modified boards have 0 peaking addet.
If going for a high bandwidth Marquee without addet peaking there is only 1 option i know off, and thats Mikes 03VIM and neckboards.
Someone who have a set please post some high bandwidth 1:1 pictures.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | He I saw another post here last night where did it go? It reminded me of the fact that to have a good Marquee including spareparts one has to invest too. I was hoping for a cheap solution to play with the impressive video chain. After seeing the schematics I would like to see it in action. I liked that they had no ABL stuff, no black or white clamping and not even line drivers if I remember well. In the Barco chain they are all there and each requires an opamp limiting bandwidth.
The whole lug thing with the extra grid is that to lower the capacity and to increase the bandwidth too I wonder? |
Generally every projector has a kind of clamping, as it is important for the signal DC restoration, actually the marquee has clamping on both the neckboards and on the VIM, the newer boards, which are "so bad" according Stridsvognen, only uses single clamping only on the VIM.
The extra grid on the LUG is inteded to help keeping tighter focus, nothing to do with capacitance. |
I have to correct that the clamping I was referring to is more a kind of limiting on the output board of the barco. The clamping and dc restoration is on the input controlled by the cut off in the software if I understand it well. If not....
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | He I saw another post here last night where did it go? It reminded me of the fact that to have a good Marquee including spareparts one has to invest too. I was hoping for a cheap solution to play with the impressive video chain. |
I deleted it because I felt I was rambling a bit and I'm no expert either. But to sum it up: I was saying that 2 whole pj is what you should get over having just one + spare parts. Shipping for spare parts is what made mine very expensive, but if you ask Curt for a price with a 2008 Ultra you'd be tempted to get 2 matching sets. I got one for-myself so there's actually nine now.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| thewolfman wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | | He I saw another post here last night where did it go? It reminded me of the fact that to have a good Marquee including spareparts one has to invest too. I was hoping for a cheap solution to play with the impressive video chain. |
I deleted it because I felt I was rambling a bit and I'm no expert either. But to sum it up: I was saying that 2 whole pj is what you should get over having just one + spare parts. Shipping for spare parts is what made mine very expensive, but if you ask Curt for a price with a 2008 Ultra you'd be tempted to get 2 matching sets. I got one for-myself so there's actually nine now. |
Ok, I found the ad for the 2008. They have the v02 VIM and probable the new neckboards?
But that looks interesting....
But you deleted an interesting part on the MP mods. If MP does not do it anymore that will be a problem.
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | thewolfman wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | | He I saw another post here last night where did it go? It reminded me of the fact that to have a good Marquee including spareparts one has to invest too. I was hoping for a cheap solution to play with the impressive video chain. |
I deleted it because I felt I was rambling a bit and I'm no expert either. But to sum it up: I was saying that 2 whole pj is what you should get over having just one + spare parts. Shipping for spare parts is what made mine very expensive, but if you ask Curt for a price with a 2008 Ultra you'd be tempted to get 2 matching sets. I got one for-myself so there's actually nine now. |
Ok, I found the ad for the 2008. They have the v02 VIM and probable the new neckboards?
But that looks interesting....
But you deleted an interesting part on the MP mods. If MP does not do it anymore that will be a problem. |
I had to make 2 down-payments for one and it'll be fully payed for next month, but I don't know any about the neck boards involved. I got it to make mine an Ultra and stock up on spare parts at the same time. But I already have a set of modded MP neck boards at his place, and waiting for them to get here, so not that important what they are to me.
But there are earlier mods he has done every now and then on sell/buy-forum. It's very addictive when you start doing this stuff.. but a lot of fun with it also 
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Certainly very addictive. It started with getting back to CRT but now I start to discover that CRT has advanced in the past four years way beyond what I was hoping. 
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Have you ever thought of getting into retro video games and modding game consoles instead???
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Have you ever thought of getting into retro video games and modding game consoles instead??? |
Naaah I have some friends in audio so I can help you with that. They know exactly what caps, resistors and tubes to use. As a matter of fact I was thinking about replacing the hybrid video amp with a tube stage from an fm transmitter 
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