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soleboy
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:30 am Post subject: Let's rebuild a quadrupler |
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I have 4 quadruplers for cine9.
and two of them have faulty condition.
One has HV shutdown after 30 min.
other one has no HV and eaten my EHT card (EHT fuse was not a slo-blo type  )
I am thinking of edge blend. so having spare parts is must.
buying of used or new quad is one of solutions. but I want a high reliability quad. so I dug my faulty quad.
I need informations for replacement capacitors and diodes 
original capacitors are - ero MKT 1816-230/115 maybe from vishay. 3000pF 10Kv
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| Potato peeler is my best friend! |
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| Before digging a big scoop, poke vertically. potting is not so deep. |
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| There is a wire on the edge. be careful. |
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| finally, I took capacitors out. |
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| There is a blown capacitor. WOW!!! |
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| there is a MOUNT on the bottom of caps |
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| OOPS.. I cut the wire from transformer. Can I fix it? |
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1 Cine9, 1 CineMAX and a bunch of faulty boards...
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:08 am Post subject: |
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As I see you already found the other thread where a guy talked about repaired quads. Acording to him, the capacitors are going bad, because their voltage rating is "too low". So you have to find capacitors with the same capacitance and 12,5kV or 15kV rating.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Decibel
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 904
Location: Roma - Italia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | As I see you already found the other thread where a guy talked about repaired quads |
Link please 
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Domenico (Barco fan!)
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soleboy
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 22
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soleboy
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, from what I've found, the problem with the newer quads is not defective parts, but it's the potting compound that goes conductive over time. Being able to find non-conductive potting compound that is good to 34Kv, and seals with no air bubbles in it, that will be the trick.
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Decibel
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 904
Location: Roma - Italia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Just an idea: might be trying to warm the same material that is removed until the liquefaction. Then put it in the same place.
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Domenico (Barco fan!)
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Aussie_Al
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 47
TV/Projector: NEC 9PG, XG1101, XG1350
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Decibel wrote: | | Just an idea: might be trying to warm the same material that is removed until the liquefaction. Then put it in the same place. |
But if what Curt suspects is correct, wouldn't putting the same stuff, back in the same place, result in the S_M_ problem?? Wanna buy a vowel? 
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Decibel
Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 904
Location: Roma - Italia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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I am sorry, the translator worked bad. I thought the problem was the difficult to found the compound to replace the original one.
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Domenico (Barco fan!)
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Aussie_Al
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 47
TV/Projector: NEC 9PG, XG1101, XG1350
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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No problem Decibel, from my understanding from reading is that the main problem is the HV caps are failing. If the original caps are rated so close to the actual operational voltages, its really no wonder that they fail. Maybe its a combination of both bad caps/dodgy potting compound??
Last edited by Aussie_Al on Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Actually, from what I've found, the problem with the newer quads is not defective parts, but it's the potting compound that goes conductive over time. Being able to find non-conductive potting compound that is good to 34Kv, and seals with no air bubbles in it, that will be the trick. |
you can buy the pourable liquid silicone compound , but getting out the air bubbles probably means pulling a vacuum on it.
Curt do you know how they potted these originally?
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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No idea. My guess is that either the silicone stuff is poured in, and then a vacuum is created, but one guy in Calgary (that tried and failed rebuilding quads) used a shaker table to vibrate the bubbles out. He rebuilt 5, and apparently used one that worked for a while. One of the 4 that he sent me worked for a few hours, the other 3 failed right away.
He did a really nice job sealing the quads too, but I don't know whether the compound he used was conductive as well, or whether the electronics failed.
I do have 100+ bad quads in stock, yours for the price of shipping if anyone wants to play with them. First dibs on buying back working ones though. 
SOmeone did post from China, saying that he did did rebuild one successfully a few months ago. I exchanged a few emails with him, and he said that they'd be $150 each to rebuild, which, when you consider 2 way shipping from me, would exceed what I sell them for.
Also, the guy was apparently 65, and wasn't going to go into production rebuilding them.
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Actually, from what I've found, the problem with the newer quads is not defective parts, but it's the potting compound that goes conductive over time. Being able to find non-conductive potting compound that is good to 34Kv, and seals with no air bubbles in it, that will be the trick. |
Curt,
send me one....the potting we use for our xray tubes is very high quality. I mean it seals radiation.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Email me pls, I'll send you three!
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Sealing of radiation will mean its likely to be conductive at 34kV
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Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | No idea. My guess is that either the silicone stuff is poured in, and then a vacuum is created, but one guy in Calgary (that tried and failed rebuilding quads) used a shaker table to vibrate the bubbles out. He rebuilt 5, and apparently used one that worked for a while. One of the 4 that he sent me worked for a few hours, the other 3 failed right away.. |
shaker table just isn't going to cut it, you could be talking an air bubble so small it would be invisible to the naked eye but a gaping hole to a 35Kv arc.
A vacuum set-up could be costly, I know at work we pay around $700. just to re-build a lab-grade pump, and anything you buy off the surplus scientific equpmnt. market will need to be rebuilt.
Then you need a vacuum tight chamber and a gauge to make sure after you pull vacuum it stays under vacuum or you will have to leave the pump running overnight.
| digitalayon wrote: | | send me one....the potting we use for our xray tubes is very high quality. I mean it seals radiation. |
X-rays and Kilovolts = apples and Oranges. The thing to do here is contact a company that specializes in silicone and epoxy potting /sealing compounds and talk to an applications engineer. Like these guys
http://www.masterbond.com/tds/mastersil-150
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Did you think about using epoxy resin or polyurethane to mold ?
I have both here, but i do not know about the electrical characteristics of those materials.
Epoxy resin is used in motorbike CDIs and ignition coils.
Maybe try those? But the best thing would maybe be a bigger circuit board, the parts further away from each other and a metal case.
Foam rubber glued inside the metal case.
So if something goes bad, you don't have to scratch all the molding out of the box.
Maybe its worth a try, but depends on the available room inside the 909.
Regards, Julian
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Marquee 9500U edgeblend P43 | NEC 9PG
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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How long does this stuff tack to set? If a little heat is applied (perhaps in an oven) won't air bubbles be forced to the top.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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There is enough room to go wider.
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Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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