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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:57 pm Post subject: Weird problem Marquee blue tube |
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Drat
With LCP09 blue tubes in short supply, I have a new one here that runs okay at low beam current, I can run the test grid at any contrast level OK. On white field it is okay up to contrast 45-50 or so, then it starts flashing. At contrast 55-60 the control board locks up and v bow goes nuts.
Any ideas? I would hate to toss this tube if there is a fix possible.
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1304
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Hello Tim,
First, I would like to rule out any other possible factors:
- You may have tested with another tube in the same machine at the same spot.
- You may have tested the blue tube in a different machine/location (e.g. swapping with the red one).
Question for both: Did it show the same effect?
If answers are "NO" and "YES", then it definately must be the tube itself.
One cause could be an imperfect vacuum (internal arcing produced through ionized gas which sends electrical spikes back into the machine) for which there is no cure.
Or it could be a soft short in the tube's System (e.g. between Heater and Cathode, Cathode and G1 or G1 and G2). In this case, a tube rejuvenator could be helpful. Most of these devices allow for removal of Shorts (at least for Heater vs Cathode and Cathode vs G1). You might have to construct Your own socket Adapter (like I did) as the ones provided (if there are any) mostly are for Color CRTs of old consumer TV sets.
Regards,
barclay66
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Hello
Okay, that was about what I expected, gotta call Craig about testing this puppy
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Sure Tim, just ship me the tube and I'll test it and clear any shorts if they show up.
Not a problem.
I will say that heater shorts can't be cleared. If it is a heater short, you could run a separate power supply for the heater to isolate the circuit and make the tube work. But there is no fix for a heater short.
craigr
_________________
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www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| barclay66 wrote: | Hello Tim,
First, I would like to rule out any other possible factors:
- You may have tested with another tube in the same machine at the same spot.
- You may have tested the blue tube in a different machine/location (e.g. swapping with the red one).
Question for both: Did it show the same effect?
If answers are "NO" and "YES", then it definately must be the tube itself.
One cause could be an imperfect vacuum (internal arcing produced through ionized gas which sends electrical spikes back into the machine) for which there is no cure.
Or it could be a soft short in the tube's System (e.g. between Heater and Cathode, Cathode and G1 or G1 and G2). In this case, a tube rejuvenator could be helpful. Most of these devices allow for removal of Shorts (at least for Heater vs Cathode and Cathode vs G1). You might have to construct Your own socket Adapter (like I did) as the ones provided (if there are any) mostly are for Color CRTs of old consumer TV sets.
Regards,
barclay66 |
Hi Barclay and Tim,
I need to get involved here to, I'm afraid, but feel free to take this sub-topic over to my thread, just below this one, and answer me there if you feel like it.
Anyway, my projector has never arced before, but every time I turn it on it dose with the new refurbished blue tube. Last night, it arced 2 times within an hour of use, making the image very small and big again. I feel the pj will break down into more problems if I continue using it. But, from reading your input here Barclay, I need to test my old blue tube and see if the arcing goes away.
But first thing first; I will change the focus coil back to frankenyoke with the new blue, because that one has a lead that ties to the back plane to get rid of charging building up in the tube, if it still arcs with that on, I will change it back to my old blue tube and see what happens. I wont to any more testing with the other issues, because those were always there before and been like that for many months, in a better or worsened state, but always been there.
I may have 3 separate issues going on now.. Blue tube arcing, blue stigmator not working and an FCM that doesn't focus to top it off. The money pit of this thing is just unbelievable.
Sorry, for hi-jacking a bit.
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hello
I recommend you run the machine until the arcing stops. Some particulates in the tube got stirred up in shipment, it is not unusual.
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | Hello
I recommend you run the machine until the arcing stops. Some particulates in the tube got stirred up in shipment, it is not unusual. |
Ok, I'll do that for some time forward and see what happens. Thanks.
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1304
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:48 am Post subject: |
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@thewolfman:
Hi,
First: When mounting the new tube, did You transfer the copper foil on the old tube's bell to the new one and did You connect the two connectors to the Neck board Ground connectors?
If not, this would explain a lot about the arcing issue...
Second: Did the new tube come with the HV cable already mounted or did You mount it Yourself? Sometimes problems can arise if people try to reuse the old cables. Parts of the insulation may get cut off during removal or missing/wrong silicone may increase the risk of arcing. Some silicone manufacturers put graphite particles into it for making it black. Doesn't really help when it comes to electrical insulation...
Otherwise I concur with Tim that particles may cause this and they may be reduced over time.
Regards,
barclay66
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| barclay66 wrote: | @thewolfman:
Hi,
First: When mounting the new tube, did You transfer the copper foil on the old tube's bell to the new one and did You connect the two connectors to the Neck board Ground connectors?
If not, this would explain a lot about the arcing issue...
Second: Did the new tube come with the HV cable already mounted or did You mount it Yourself? Sometimes problems can arise if people try to reuse the old cables. Parts of the insulation may get cut off during removal or missing/wrong silicone may increase the risk of arcing. Some silicone manufacturers put graphite particles into it for making it black. Doesn't really help when it comes to electrical insulation...
Otherwise I concur with Tim that particles may cause this and they may be reduced over time.
Regards,
barclay66 |
Hi,
the new tube already had copper foil on it and transferred all my hardware over to that one, it came with new HV cables and the 2 connectors only. But I forgot witch of the 2 connectors went where, on the left or on the right of the neck board, but figured either side would do as they are ground on the same metal plate there.
The HV lead were quite tricky to fold in and fit through the plastic hole.. I remember thinking if this will become a problem for me so folded some 1-1,5 cm extra within the plastic cover so not bend the the cable to much. You know, I'm going to take it apart and look for clues like that you just told me, it might very well be something like that.
I'll try this because arcing isn't going away, like 3-4 times last night over 2,5 hours.
EDIT: Before taking it apart completely, I did a quicky with separating the parts and installing frankenyoke one more time, and now it seems to be working again. Maybe a little early but with about 90 minutes of use there's been no arching at all. A few days more will tell for sure but feel confident that it's been solved already.
Thanks for the help.
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Guys
Any new tube will arc because it is new, and especially if bounced around in shipment, it is inherent in the technology
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