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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: |
All that aside, I'd like to see honest photos of a Barco fully resolving 1080p with a 1:1 test pattern. I have never seen it.
craigr |
And you never will 
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | Guys the 1:1 pattern is very important and it gives you a good idea of the ultimate resolving power of a CRT projector. However, I think you are worrying about the 1:1 too much. I'm all for testing projectors using the 1:1, but rarely in real world video does it come into direct play.
The 1:1 pattern displays the ultimate resolving power when an edge is called for that goes from 100% black to 100% white. In real world video how often does this actually happen? If a video image has edges where a guys suit intersects his shirt, or where a bicycle wheel intersects a frame, or where a chair sits against a window, or the detail in the fabric in the chair, or anything else; you are not very often going from full black to full white. In most real world situations the absolute rise and fall time of the beam is not called for and the projector will be able to fully resolve this.
That's why 1080p looks better than lower resolutions on 9" projectors even though most can not 100% fully resolve 1080p. You are still resolving 1080p and you are fully resolving most of the content in a given image.
Everyone knows I am very keen on test patterns and work to an exacting engineering standard. However, at some point there is a limit to what a test pattern can tell you and you actually have to just look at the image on the screen and see how it is or how it compares to another example.
craigr |
Oh thank you Yoda 
1080p looks great on my PJ I have tried all of the other "standard" resolutions but 1080p looks best and pretty sharp as well. There is better depth of field at 1080p or at least thats the way it seems for my setup. If I look at a test pattern it doesn't look as good but who watches test patterns.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:49 am Post subject: |
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remember the power of 1:1 pixel mapping/ no scaling, that make for a difference, the HD Basic disc have some 720P clips, try see if thats not sharper.
If it is, well wont help like there is no 720P format out there.
So its all about finding the best compromise between bandwidth, scaling/ no scaling, and what framerate we can handle.
It just dont change the fact that you will get a better picture if you can do no scaling, run 72hz, and have more bandwidth than you need instead of less.
We need to get the best out of what we got, and we dont all have the same hardware.
Now we will soon see how far a top tuned 909 will get...
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:49 am Post subject: |
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So with 817p we have no problems on 1:1 as less bandwidth is required.
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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
CIR Engineering wrote:
All that aside, I'd like to see honest photos of a Barco fully resolving 1080p with a 1:1 test pattern. I have never seen it.
craigr
And you never will Laughing |
Well looking at these pictures from Case it looks like he's resolving 1080P 60hz pretty good with analog straight from PC
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | This is with the MOOME V3 external:
This is RGB straight from the PC, exactly the same 1920x1080p @60Hz
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Case tell us what you did and the exact chain starting from your video card and PC specs to projector, because I've tried it to accomplish with my HTPC with soldered 5 BNC breakout directly on videocard to projector but I don't came anything near this result as shown in your picture.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:00 am Post subject: |
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There is some problems posting old pictures like this taken out of the thread they were original posted in when all the details about the pictures dont go along.
The first picture was a hole different pattern where the horisontal and vertical lines did not have the same level in the native test pattern, and it looks like there is quite some peaking addet in the projector.
Quote from Case::::
Different pattern to mine Nash, mine doesnt have the lines at the same brightness. I see what youre saying and i know that, but no. Not the case here with that pattern. If you can get me a different pattern i can use that, but im away from home at the moment. The chances of my machine resolving it fully when it doesnt work as it should are very very slim.
Also the image seen in the pic is very blury compared to what is seen on screen, and i dont have a tripod or camera to take sharp images.
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Ok not so good iphone camera and grainy screen (painters cloth) but it show the color difference for internal hdmi moome v3. I still did not do electrical focus and astig.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Super nice pictures.. Shows all we need to see.
It would be great if you explain the full video chain, player VP whatever, and resolution/ total pixel clock and whatever is relevant.
Keep it comming..
Lets hope Greg will post shots like that.
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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This is the board redfox is using, I have the same board to test but unfortunate mine has some issues to keep sync. Sometimes video starts flashing on and off. Also I get same results on 1:1 picture resolvability. Until now I get better results with Greg's modifications/ boards.
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Ok guys Eisemann tubes are installed with new glycol and new colored C-elements. They are just finished their break-in 10hr and now have to spend some time to dial in astig focus convergence etc. etc.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Do that Moome card have the filter mod Craig mentioned, or is it the edition who dont need it.?
Anyone ever asked how many pre order cards needet before Moome wil make a Barco HDMI card.?
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Francisco wrote: | This is the board redfox is using, I have the same board to test but unfortunate mine has some issues to keep sync. Sometimes video starts flashing on and off. Also I get same results on 1:1 picture resolvability. Until now I get better results with Greg's modifications/ boards.
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I am most interested in the picture quality you get from this etup. I have a and External Moome card mounted on a modded port 3 card and its not a great result. The external Moome works better the way it was designed and that is external to the projector.
Port 5 delivers better results especially colour depth.
Perhaps the card you are using is a better design so let us know.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Hi what do you meen with color depth? From what I see the picture is excellent also the colors but he I am used to digital  Also I see no ghosting and not a lot of noise. Of cause I don't know what causes the sharpness that I see in the subtitles but I remember my Marquee 8500 and those subs where not nearly as sharp than. The subtitles on my VW100 are more or less the same sharp.
I will compare with an external HDFury2 when I get the right cable. But as I understand the unmodded Fury is no match anyway?
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Same picture with a better camera but still have to find better setting with longer exposure and less noise.
I would say the vertical is at 60% and the horizontal at 80%.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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The picture is ok to see bandwidthe performance with, but you need to post some information about source and video chani, and your sesolution and framerate, prefered your total pixel clock.
And it would be fun to see how much you need to turn down the framerate to get the 1:1 boxes to match in output.
Can you try 1080P 50hz.?
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | The picture is ok to see bandwidthe performance with, but you need to post some information about source and video chani, and your sesolution and framerate, prefered your total pixel clock.
And it would be fun to see how much you need to turn down the framerate to get the 1:1 boxes to match in output.
Can you try 1080P 50hz.? |
Ok the source is a Macbook Pro with 1080p@60 through internal HDMI in port 3 based om Moome v3.
Don't know the total pixel clock but these 60Hz timings are pretty good with small front and back porches from the Macbook. Had to do a little fase shift but the picture is almost as big as the raster.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:29 am Post subject: |
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Thatll back up not only what i told you about the XG, but also what i regularly state about the performance of the NEC in general. 
| stridsvognen wrote: | There is some problems posting old pictures like this taken out of the thread they were original posted in when all the details about the pictures dont go along.
The first picture was a hole different pattern where the horisontal and vertical lines did not have the same level in the native test pattern, and it looks like there is quite some peaking addet in the projector.
Quote from Case::::
Different pattern to mine Nash, mine doesnt have the lines at the same brightness. I see what youre saying and i know that, but no. Not the case here with that pattern. If you can get me a different pattern i can use that, but im away from home at the moment. The chances of my machine resolving it fully when it doesnt work as it should are very very slim.
Also the image seen in the pic is very blury compared to what is seen on screen, and i dont have a tripod or camera to take sharp images. |
Are you claiming i doctored the images here or what? Did you quote the above passage from the correct time or from another time? I notice reference there to my projector not working correctly, which i cant remember if i had replaced the quad prior to that bottom pic or not.
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Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
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@Francisco: How long does it approx. take to have the boards modified and sent back to you ?
cheers
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Altogether sending to USA modified and back again to NL aprox 8 weeks. But it depends how busy Greg is and also shipping from NL to USA took longer than expected. I think normally Greg will need around 3 weeks to do the mods.
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