|
As this forum is rarely used anymore, we've locked it. Feel free to browse and read. Questions? Please reach out to us directly. Cheers! |
|
 |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| stridsvognen wrote: | | Maybe im lazy, im sure, maybe you know best, so thanks for sharing, i was the idiot... |
Wow. Really? Is your skin actually so thin you're looking for any reason to feel insulted, that you manufacture them out of thin air? So you can go on a rant? Just... wow.
| Quote: | | i just did not find any real benefits making special formats to each resolution after i had Mike Parkers boards instaled, and bandwidth was no longer the big isue. |
I guess you missed my comment, "There's nothing wrong with that!", when you decided to throw a tantrum. 
| Quote: | | I much prefer to hear about your testing and experience over your coments about my personality. |
I hadn't intended to make any comment about your personality (though I now have, above). I was simply trying to have an intelligent conversation, and share some knowledge (not just with you) I've gained over the last decade.
Since apparently that's not possible, I'll retire now, and let you have your pissing matches with someone else.  Life's too short for that nonsense. 
_________________
- Tim
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| stridsvognen wrote: | | jbmeyer13 wrote: | | VideoGrabber wrote: |
There's nothing wrong with that! But you state it as if it's an option so outlandish that no one would even consider it. I can assure you that's not the case. As just one counter-example, I've set up every CRT I owned with custom settings for each major format. I know I'm not the only one who has felt it was worth the effort to take the time to make the PJ look it's best in every configuration. |
I have also set up memories for multiple formats. For 2.35/2.40AR content I found 817P/72 to be sharper than 1080p/60 with the obvious reduction of flicker. I'd love to do a 1080p/72 vs. 817p/72 comparison but I'm not currently using a radiance XS+. I would naturally assume that 817P/72 will provide a cleaner image and hope to do a comparison in the near future. |
I better put this right.. In my opinion the Radiance makes a cleaner image than the HDQ, and you need to get MP to mod the moome card, trow away the gamma crap, and make it handle those hight bandwidth.
|
MP is sending me filters for the Moome as well as some other goodies 
I'm sure the Radiance is cleaner. When CIR did the calibration on my previous Marquee I asked him about his thoughts on 1080p/72 vs 817p/72 on the Radiance and his thoughts were that 817p/72 was the better option for that processor as well.
_________________
Projector: Modded 9501LC ULtra- MP VIM, Vold VNB, ETECH LVPS, Silver VIM Cables, HD10F's & a V1 case!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stridsvognen
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| VideoGrabber wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Maybe im lazy, im sure, maybe you know best, so thanks for sharing, i was the idiot... |
Wow. Really? Is your skin actually so thin you're looking for any reason to feel insulted, that you manufacture them out of thin air? So you can go on a rant? Just... wow.
| Quote: | | i just did not find any real benefits making special formats to each resolution after i had Mike Parkers boards instaled, and bandwidth was no longer the big isue. |
I guess you missed my comment, "There's nothing wrong with that!", when you decided to throw a tantrum.
| Quote: | | I much prefer to hear about your testing and experience over your coments about my personality. |
I hadn't intended to make any comment about your personality (though I now have, above). I was simply trying to have an intelligent conversation, and share some knowledge (not just with you) I've gained over the last decade.
Since apparently that's not possible, I'll retire now, and let you have your pissing matches with someone else. Life's too short for that nonsense. |
I fail to read your experience sorry if you feel its a pissing contest, i just wonder how you can coment the outcome of my hardware and experiences.
Did you test the latest MP mods.?
Ohh,, and please dont cut out my answers and quote it where its not in full length taking words out of the sentence or context they were ment to be in. It gets so damn ugly if we have to play that game. Its like you with intention try to argue or misunderstand my intentions.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
papegoja
Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 19
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Please stop destroying this thread. Stick to topic!
_________________
BarcoReality 909, 104", Onkyo 3008, Mirage speakers, Philips BDP9600
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just passing time until Greg posts some 1:1 shots from one of his 909's
_________________
Projector: Modded 9501LC ULtra- MP VIM, Vold VNB, ETECH LVPS, Silver VIM Cables, HD10F's & a V1 case!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| papegoja wrote: | | Please stop destroying this thread. Stick to topic! |
Thanks papegoja, I totally agree on that, please stay OT. Within a few days will mount the new eisemann Lugs and see what this will bring.
_________________
Philips vacuum cleaner | Trystar double toaster | Car radio with orange plastic memory arrows | Class A Fridge
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jbmeyer13 wrote: | | I'm sure the Radiance is cleaner. When CIR did the calibration on my previous Marquee I asked him about his thoughts on 1080p/72 vs 817p/72 on the Radiance and his thoughts were that 817p/72 was the better option for that processor as well. |
817p at 72Hz is better for 2.35/2.40 material because why not take advantage of using less bandwidth when you can. You will always get a sharper image on a CRT if you reduce the image bandwidth. However, I certainly prefer 1080p 72Hz for 1.78 content.
I think 1080p 96Hz is going to be a total mess on most Marquee machines. The raster ringing on the left side increases with bandwidth and I think you will have some very messy raster ringing. Both the Barco and G90 have much less raster ringing and I will be using 1080p 96Hz for 3D very soon... Lumagen will have a processor before too long that supports 1080p 96Hz and beyond. I don't think the G90 or Barco machines will look better with 1080p 96Hz on 2D either though.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying 
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| VideoGrabber wrote: | Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:47 pm
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Francisco wrote: |
Here your 1:1 hasn't got the same level H vs V. |
I dont recall stating it did... |
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:44 am
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: |
...did you ever make any screenshots with the right 1:1 pattern where vertical and horisontal have the same level from the source.? |
Yep, i posted them in another thread. |
Paging Dr. Alzheimers! Paging Dr. I. Got Alzheimers. |
You might want to learn to read i think, you left out the other things i said in attempt to make me look as though i cant remember what i did say? Then youre silly enough to post it right under where i posted the images in question. The fact Strids was asking me about the test pattern i was using and not how its was displayed makes it really clear you didnt bother to read any of it before making a comment.
At no point did i state it was the same level in any of my screen shots.
Two different quotes, two different posters, two totally different questions. If you want to be a wanker, at least get your facts right.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: |
You might want to learn to read i think, |
Yes, I agree.  That's why I wrote, "Paging Dr. I. Got Alzheimers". Because _I_ read it wrong, and thought that was amusing. I can certainly see now how it could be interpreted otherwise though.
| Quote: | | you left out the other things i said in attempt to make me look as though i cant remember what i did say? |
No, I wasn't trying to poke fun at you. I sincerely apologize for being unclear.
| Quote: | | Then youre silly enough to post it right under where i posted the images in question. The fact Strids was asking me about the test pattern i was using and not how its was displayed makes it really clear you didnt bother to read any of it before making a comment. |
Most certainly!  I did not bother to read ahead before making a comment. That's a serious flaw I have... responding to a sequence of comments in a discussion, as I read them. Then finding something on the next page that made them less relevant, or even misguided. For some reason, I have trouble reading a dozen comments, THEN remembering to go back and reply to certain specific ones. Mea maxima culpa.
| Quote: | | If you want to be a wanker, |
Well, you've got me there. I do enjoy me a good wank, from time to time.
Again, I'm sorry for upsetting you. That wasn't my intention. I thought I also made some friendly comment thanking you for taking the time to find and repost the real photos, showing how the PC card did a better job than the Moome. If I didn't, I meant to.
But I think it's pretty clear that if I'm pissing off multiple people here, on the same day no less!, with comments that seem pretty innocuous to me, it's time for me to move on. It's been a good run, I've had fun in the Forum and learned a lot in the process. I tried to share a few of my own insights along the way, and was misguided enough to think I had made a few friends here.
I won't harrass you any more.
_________________
- Tim
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Appology accepted.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stridsvognen
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CIR Engineering wrote: | | jbmeyer13 wrote: | | I'm sure the Radiance is cleaner. When CIR did the calibration on my previous Marquee I asked him about his thoughts on 1080p/72 vs 817p/72 on the Radiance and his thoughts were that 817p/72 was the better option for that processor as well. |
817p at 72Hz is better for 2.35/2.40 material because why not take advantage of using less bandwidth when you can. You will always get a sharper image on a CRT if you reduce the image bandwidth. However, I certainly prefer 1080p 72Hz for 1.78 content.
I think 1080p 96Hz is going to be a total mess on most Marquee machines. The raster ringing on the left side increases with bandwidth and I think you will have some very messy raster ringing. Both the Barco and G90 have much less raster ringing and I will be using 1080p 96Hz for 3D very soon... Lumagen will have a processor before too long that supports 1080p 96Hz and beyond. I don't think the G90 or Barco machines will look better with 1080p 96Hz on 2D either though.
craigr |
I totaly agree.
I started all the 1080P 96hz talk, i was telling i want to test it on the Marquee with the latest 300Mhz MP mods if possible, and together with that, there have to be less or no raster ringing.
The reason to do it, is to see how high its possible to push those last mods, and it has no relevance to standard machines whatsoever.
Mike have posted screen shots running 300Mhz with very nice 1:1, the problem these days is to find something to do the frame quadrupling, so im exited that Lumagen will make something that will do so, i was waiting to see the specs of the HDFury 5, as they promised me it would do it, im just not sure what quality the HDMI out will be.
Lets jump back to the Barco mods, and see if Greg will post some 1:1 shots running those 190Mhz he claim possible all the way true his new mods.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just a quick aside. Lumagen released the Radiance 2143 today and it supports 4k 60Hz output. I will double check with Jim, but I think this one will be able to provide any custom resolutions under the digital bandwidth of 4k 60Hz. Our limitation now is that we don't yet have an HDMI transcoder that can support such high bandwidth.
I spoke to Moome recently about developing an HDMI transcoder built on the HDMI 2.0 spec and he is looking into it. For the 2143 1080p 120Hz is a cake walk.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nice.
And still the question remains if 2 x 9 inchers could handle 4K in a blend ?
2048 x 1536 on each in a cinemascope environment results with a blend zone of 256.
Final result will be 3840 x 1536
_________________
Barco Cine 9 the one and only
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stridsvognen
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ill think a UHD 60hz will need a bandwidth close to 600Mhz, and if cropped to 2.40:1 maybe around 430Mhz, + some blend zone, and the desire to run 72hz. Depending the native framerate.
And i think everyone in here have a idea how much hardware time and trouble a blend is, and if on top the Bandwidth is hurting the image, whats the purpose.?
Maybe a UHD I 72hz blend is a option.
For me ill just stick to downscaling UHD to what looks best on my CRT. and i doubt that 1080P blu ray will stop production after we get a UHD Blu ray.
I also dont have space for a 4-5m wide screen to make a blend possible.
My reason to be curious is if UHD have higher native framerate, more than 8bit color, and 4:2:2 or better.
Emagine if they did a 1080P 48hz 10 bit 4:4:4 format.. WOOO HOOOO..
Ill guess that if someone think that 4K is a must have, then its time to go digital..
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Check out the resolutions of this monitor (i have one)
http://www.microdata.odessa.ua/docs/SonyFW900.pdf
2048 x 1536 was tested and looks teriffic.
A 909-er should also be able to do so.
_________________
Barco Cine 9 the one and only
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stridsvognen
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah do so.. Bot how in the world do you figure out that it will look close to decent, when the 909 have problems resolving 1080P 60hz.. The ability to display a resolution is far from the same as it will resolve it, and your monitor also have a recommended resolution at 1920 x 1200 85Hz
So for someone who care about the right level of each pixel, and the dynamic range a fully resolved resolution will give, im sure pushing a CRT to those bandwidth is just down hill.
You want to make a 909 display around 220Mhz at 60hz with that resolution, and it wont resolve 150Mhz as it is.
Im curious what you desire in a picture.?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
So that would mean i have to use 3 of 'em 
_________________
Barco Cine 9 the one and only
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stridsvognen
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ElTopo wrote: | | So that would mean i have to use 3 of 'em |
How.? 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Guys the 1:1 pattern is very important and it gives you a good idea of the ultimate resolving power of a CRT projector. However, I think you are worrying about the 1:1 too much. I'm all for testing projectors using the 1:1, but rarely in real world video does it come into direct play.
The 1:1 pattern displays the ultimate resolving power when an edge is called for that goes from 100% black to 100% white. In real world video how often does this actually happen? If a video image has edges where a guys suit intersects his shirt, or where a bicycle wheel intersects a frame, or where a chair sits against a window, or the detail in the fabric in the chair, or anything else; you are not very often going from full black to full white. In most real world situations the absolute rise and fall time of the beam is not called for and the projector will be able to fully resolve this.
That's why 1080p looks better than lower resolutions on 9" projectors even though most can not 100% fully resolve 1080p. You are still resolving 1080p and you are fully resolving most of the content in a given image.
Everyone knows I am very keen on test patterns and work to an exacting engineering standard. However, at some point there is a limit to what a test pattern can tell you and you actually have to just look at the image on the screen and see how it is or how it compares to another example.
4k at 48Hz may look perfectly all right on a 909 without any modifications even though it will be no place close to fully resolving the content. The content will still contain more detail that the projector will try to reproduce up to its capabilities which may be adequate in most scene characteristics.
Also, there is almost zero 4k material available for consumers at this point unless you live in Japan where you can grab 4k OTA. The only 4k player that is available is the Sony streaming 4k player it it only can plug into a Sony 4k digital projector. The player also brings back not so fond memories of early HD-DVD players when they worked intermittently and were incredibly unreliable.
All that aside, I'd like to see honest photos of a Barco fully resolving 1080p with a 1:1 test pattern. I have never seen it.
craigr
_________________
JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | The 1:1 pattern displays the ultimate resolving power when an edge is called for that goes from 100% black to 100% white. In real world video how often does this actually happen? If a video image has edges where a guys suit intersects his shirt, or where a bicycle wheel intersects a frame, or where a chair sits against a window, or the detail in the fabric in the chair, or anything else; you are not very often going from full black to full white. In most real world situations the absolute rise and fall time of the beam is not called for and the projector will be able to fully resolve this. |
This is exactly my experience, although my projector is not resolving the 1:1 pattern fully I don't see any of the "imperfections" in actual video. My other little issues like ghosting and picture noise improved significantly also sharpness improved (which already was excellent) and a little more and better BW, altogether it makes a astonishing overall picture.
Greg will try to improve the RGB amps to see if we can add some extra BW to the end of the chain and we will see. Will post pictures at that time.
_________________
Philips vacuum cleaner | Trystar double toaster | Car radio with orange plastic memory arrows | Class A Fridge
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
|
