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larryp
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 252
Location: eden prairie mn
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:45 pm Post subject: What is the "Top Gun" of crt projectors right now? |
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I know there's probably no one certain model, But if judging a projector by picture quality, Parts availability, user friendly set up
What do you think is the top crt projector available right now? What model would you buy if upgrading or replacing?
Just curious what people think.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| larryp wrote: | | Just curious what people think. |
Opinions will vary greatly, Larry. It's like asking a bunch of guys whether Chevy, Ford, or Dodge makes the best muscle/pony car.
The best/worst list gives you some order and basic stats, but not much insight.
The last few best CRT projectors ever made were the Sony G90, Electrohome Marquee 9500 LC/ Ultra, and the Barco 909/Cine 9. All three are excellent in their own right, and each has their pluses and minuses. The G90 and Marquee are both relatively easy to find. The Marquee is the most "moddable" with upgrades, and probably easiest to find parts for. The G90 has a couple of common failures, but are no less reliable than anything else, and Curt says he has a stock of spare parts now. The 909 is the most expensive, and most difficult and expensive to obtain parts and make repairs on.
A step down from those machines (but still very good) would be a Sony G70, NEC XG LC, or Barco Cine 8 Onyx (also a Zenith Pro 1200x). There's also the Marquee 8500, but unless it's an 8500LC (liquid-coupled), it wouldn't be worth the trouble of upgrading in my opinion. Regardless, any of those 8-inch machines would be a very big step up from your 1272 in terms of picture quality. As a bonus, they're nearing a point where they're nearly free, or in some cases, actually are free.
The 9-inch machines will cost some money depending on model, condition, venue, etc., but are a massive step up in image quality from what you have. Huge. Not even close.
The problem for you is that you've got a fixed mount position. The throw on a 9-inch machine is, if I recall correctly, is at least one foot - maybe two - longer than your 1272, which means either you'd need to move your mount, or your image size would necessarily shrink. Once exception would be if your 1272 is mounted much further back than it should have been (which happened sometimes), in which case you may not be too far off.
I wouldn't really call any of them "user-friendly" as far as set up. No CRT is, and they're all relatively similar outside of some small variations like better/worse manuals, better/worse menus, etc. The newer, more advanced machines are more challenging to setup correctly compared to your 1272. In addition to all the same controls your 1272 has, the G90 for instance adds EM focus, several more geometry controls, and Schempflug (sometimes called 'flapping'), which is top/bottom and side/side focus (in addition to the lens center/corner focus. Unless you're willing get down and dirty with manuals and spend lots of time reading and learning, I'd plan on getting some help doing your first setup. If you were going to go the trouble of finding, moving, and installing a high-end machine, I think you'd want to get the most from your investment.
Cheers,
SC
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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If you are lucky enough to find a nice Ampro you will be well please for as long as you wish to enjoy CRT. 
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | If you are lucky enough to find a nice Ampro you will be well please for as long as you wish to enjoy CRT. |
Ampro 4600 that is.
_________________
Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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larryp
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 252
Location: eden prairie mn
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Saw that, thought it might be outdated
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larryp
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 252
Location: eden prairie mn
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not looking for a new pj, it was just a general question in regards to today's market & pj availability
| ecrabb wrote: | | larryp wrote: | | Just curious what people think. |
Opinions will vary greatly, Larry. It's like asking a bunch of guys whether Chevy, Ford, or Dodge makes the best muscle/pony car.
The best/worst list gives you some order and basic stats, but not much insight.
The last few best CRT projectors ever made were the Sony G90, Electrohome Marquee 9500 LC/ Ultra, and the Barco 909/Cine 9. All three are excellent in their own right, and each has their pluses and minuses. The G90 and Marquee are both relatively easy to find. The Marquee is the most "moddable" with upgrades, and probably easiest to find parts for. The G90 has a couple of common failures, but are no less reliable than anything else, and Curt says he has a stock of spare parts now. The 909 is the most expensive, and most difficult and expensive to obtain parts and make repairs on.
A step down from those machines (but still very good) would be a Sony G70, NEC XG LC, or Barco Cine 8 Onyx (also a Zenith Pro 1200x). There's also the Marquee 8500, but unless it's an 8500LC (liquid-coupled), it wouldn't be worth the trouble of upgrading in my opinion. Regardless, any of those 8-inch machines would be a very big step up from your 1272 in terms of picture quality. As a bonus, they're nearing a point where they're nearly free, or in some cases, actually are free.
The 9-inch machines will cost some money depending on model, condition, venue, etc., but are a massive step up in image quality from what you have. Huge. Not even close.
The problem for you is that you've got a fixed mount position. The throw on a 9-inch machine is, if I recall correctly, is at least one foot - maybe two - longer than your 1272, which means either you'd need to move your mount, or your image size would necessarily shrink. Once exception would be if your 1272 is mounted much further back than it should have been (which happened sometimes), in which case you may not be too far off.
I wouldn't really call any of them "user-friendly" as far as set up. No CRT is, and they're all relatively similar outside of some small variations like better/worse manuals, better/worse menus, etc. The newer, more advanced machines are more challenging to setup correctly compared to your 1272. In addition to all the same controls your 1272 has, the G90 for instance adds EM focus, several more geometry controls, and Schempflug (sometimes called 'flapping'), which is top/bottom and side/side focus (in addition to the lens center/corner focus. Unless you're willing get down and dirty with manuals and spend lots of time reading and learning, I'd plan on getting some help doing your first setup. If you were going to go the trouble of finding, moving, and installing a high-end machine, I think you'd want to get the most from your investment.
Cheers,
SC |
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| larryp wrote: |
Saw that, thought it might be outdated
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Hah! Not much has really changed in CRT land in the last 10-12 years, Larry… Well, other than some mods, parts availability, and the prices dropping precipitously. The pecking order has remained relatively constant for as long as I've been in this hobby.
SC
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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List is incomplete, the 812 and 912 are missing. There are also others missing from the list.
Since the question was regarding the top end, and at least two are missing that are above the 909 on that list, it needs an update.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:06 am Post subject: |
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According to those that have used them, the 812 and 912 are not as good as a 909. I have yet to see one in action. The pinnacle to me is a Cine 9 with HFQ900 lenses. The g90 comes damn close. A Marquee Ultra is third with stock lenses, but with HD10E/HFQ900 lenses, it's close behind the G90.
As long as you don't have the first generation 909 series from 1999, you're fine as to the 909 reliability.
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | larryp wrote: | | Just curious what people think. |
Opinions will vary greatly, Larry. It's like asking a bunch of guys whether Chevy, Ford, or Dodge makes the best muscle/pony car.
SC |
I should be collecting a royalty fee for you likening cars to projectors.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | If you are lucky enough to find a nice Ampro you will be well please for as long as you wish to enjoy CRT. |
TSE fanboy!!!! 
or is it that you like "Made in America"
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | If you are lucky enough to find a nice Ampro you will be well please for as long as you wish to enjoy CRT. |
TSE fanboy!!!!
or is it that you like "Made in America" |
LOL. No, I have been a proud owner of a few Ampros over the years/decades, some of which I still have and know the build quality and picture quality very well.
Speaking of you know who. If you want to know more about the phosphor laser lamp light source, give him a shout. He has been on them for quite a while now.
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: |
or is it that you like "Made in America" |
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | According to those that have used them, the 812 and 912 are not as good as a 909. I have yet to see one in action. The pinnacle to me is a Cine 9 with HFQ900 lenses. The g90 comes damn close. A Marquee Ultra is third with stock lenses, but with HD10E/HFQ900 lenses, it's close behind the G90.
As long as you don't have the first generation 909 series from 1999, you're fine as to the 909 reliability. |
This comes up every time they get a mension, and almost every time there is no one to state they have seen a 912 and can only vouch for the 812, and there is a clear step up in every way from an 808 to a 909. Depending on the application i will stay with my prior call. They will obviously be significantly brighter, astig and electronic focus should be about the same on the 912, and if youre comparing to a 909 they dont have colour filtered C-elements either, so no loss there. Unless the lenses are total junk, id expect the 912 would have to be right up there with the 909 or better.
The 812 is clearly not going to be up to the same tasks as the considerably more sofisticated 909/912, every time this has come up, those that do comment state they saw an 812 set up in non-ideal conditions.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | If you are lucky enough to find a nice Ampro you will be well please for as long as you wish to enjoy CRT. |
TSE fanboy!!!!
or is it that you like "Made in America" |
LOL. No, I have been a proud owner of a few Ampros over the years/decades, some of which I still have and know the build quality and picture quality very well.
Speaking of you know who. If you want to know more about the phosphor laser lamp light source, give him a shout. He has been on them for quite a while now. |
I haven't spoken to Scott in like three years or more. In the last four years, I have seriously curtailed my travels. When I do head up that way, I usually take the turnpike. If I drive up to the Midget meet, then I might have to swing by and see what he has been up to.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Case,
IIRC one or two guys saw the 12s set up and the bigger tubes weren't that great. I believe GM had a couple and maybe it was Tim who saw them. Anyway it is kind of moot since they aren't really available.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | Case,
IIRC one or two guys saw the 12s set up and the bigger tubes weren't that great. I believe GM had a couple and maybe it was Tim who saw them. Anyway it is kind of moot since they aren't really available. |
Yeah that may be the case, but every time it has come up, the persons involved stated they saw the 812, and considering its just an 808 with big tubes, i tend to easily believe it wouldnt hold up to a 909 in any other way but brightness and tube life. The 912 however being based on the 909 should indeed be a big step up, the ability of the electronics in the 909 to provide very good astig right to the corners ( amongst other things ) is something of an advantage over the 808. The extra available brightness has surely got to help with reduction of blooming.
Id still be very interested to see a 912 in action, i just cant see how it could not at least measure up to a 909. Itd certainly look impressive hanging from the ceiling if nothing else.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Curt said it Barco Cine 9.
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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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RaWsHaRk
Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 131
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:14 am Post subject: Re: What is the "Top Gun" of crt projectors right |
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| larryp wrote: | I know there's probably no one certain model, But if judging a projector by picture quality, Parts availability, user friendly set up
What do you think is the top crt projector available right now? What model would you buy if upgrading or replacing?
Just curious what people think. |
picture quality= 909,G90,9500 in that order. with mods, the 9500 can be at least as good as a 909-
parts availability= 9500. G90s are pretty cheap also if you life in usa, 909 can get costly.
user friendly= G90.
If I was buying, I would get a working G90 with clean tubes, if one came close to me at the right price. otherwise a Marquee is the way to go, last projector made, tubes are easy to get, and most of 8500 parts bolt on so there will be spare parts cheaply available for some years.
but I cant recommend anyone a crt if they are not dead set to have one, a digital today would be the right choice for most ppl. for my eyes, the crt pic still is more enjoyable than any digital I have seen, but 4K could change that, and I am actually happy to watch 720p stuff on a a lowly ES barco...so I dont think I will ever get a 9 incher-
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Electrohome Marquee 7500.
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