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fragzero
Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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Ok i did not think about that part of the story, only about the bandwidthdifference which exists between the different types of high end crt's. You are totally correct a about the MTF factor.
Anyway, it has been resolved, the ts saw what i meant about the bandwidthissues. we are not looking to go crazy about this subject (atleast not anymore). Lets focus on the project from here 
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Well ok you did bring a point and I’ll try not to take it personal. Interesting topic from Mike Parker. I wonder how my special hdmi card will relate to this.
Last edited by redfox001 on Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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fragzero
Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | Well ok you did bring a point and I’ll try not to take it personal. Interesting topic from Mike Parker. I wonder how my modded Moome op port 3 will relate to this... |
I think people here would be interrested in the card
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | fragzero wrote: | Ran in to a little argument with the topicstarter (do not worry, still friendly)
I am correct saying that to do 1080p60 or 72 100% correct you need a marquee with the latest mike parker mods? A 909 is limited in bandwith but does come with sharper tubes, a better focus system and the best lenses, it will do 1080p decent but not perfectly right?
Mp?
stridsvognen? |
No, you are not correct saying that to do 1080p60 or 72 100% correct you need a marquee with the latest mike parker mods. That would imply there is an achievable "100% correct", and there is not.
When we talk about projectors and resolution and sharpness, we're talking about local contrast. Contrast, or sharpness, isn't binary, e.g. sharp/not sharp, but a range, a spectrum, so it's something you measure, objectively. That way is MTF, or modulation transfer function.
An MTF of 1.0 is "perfect". That's only theoretical though, because no projector on earth can achieve 1.0, most especially not a CRT. To come very, very close, you'd need to be talking about an extremely low resolution that none of us would use - like standard definition. With 1080p, even single-chip DLP projectors with expensive lenses top around .9 (or 90%). Good CRT projectors like 9-inch machines are all in the .5 (or 50% ballpark). Some are sharper than others. The 909 is apparently bandwidth-limited, but still good. The G90 apparently has a very complex (and noisy) video chain, but is still good. The MP-modded 9500's are supposedly best of the bunch, but I've never seen one. I've only seen G90, 909, and 9500 Ultra's in stock trim, so I can't comment on MP's mods.
Regardless, all those CRT projectors are all varying degrees of pretty damn sharp for a CRT, with some a little better, and some a little worse. The MP-9500 may be the sharpest of the bunch. But, I'll just point out that they're all significantly less sharp (lower MTF) than almost any digital. Of course, that lower MTF is something most CRT aficionados actually prefer. After all, who wants to look at near-perfectly sharp pixels?
ANSI contrast also affects our perception of sharpness. Almost any digital projector has much higher ANSI contrast than a CRT, and significantly higher MTF. That's where "digital sharpness" comes from. But some like more or less sharpness than others.
My JVC has a pretty good MTF (though not as good as some), but significantly lower ANSI contrast compared to some DLP projectors. But, that's one of the reasons I prefer JVC digital over a lot of other digital projectors… It's not too sharp, and a nice compromise between the "silky-smooth look" of CRT that I always liked and the too-sharp look of many digitals. I actually ever-so-slightly defocus my projector. I don't have any equipment to measure it, so I'm totally guessing, but my MTF is probably in the .8 (80%) ballpark.
Do a search on MTF, tse, lenses, and a few of the 9-inch CRT models, and you can turn up some older threads where the subject was discussed in some detail.
SC |
Thanks for explaining. I recall that with the 4k discussion suddenly it is said that the last digital screendoor effect is reduced with 4k and looking at ik I noticed a smoother picture at distance so I wondered if this screendoor effect is not more apparent on digital than I thought it was? I mean I perceive a better picture at distances more than 3 times the height and they said that was the missing screendoor effect? Hope I’m not raising the 4k discussion
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Looking at these video board I get the impression that the extra grid for LUG tubes is not attached (underside picture counting pins).
Also the Cine 9 video board might be better in bandwith?
Last edited by redfox001 on Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Also I think I will upgrade the connection cable by taking the very beautiful RGB coax cables outside. It seems to me a potential problem to have these video cables that close to all the other cables. I might make a nice cotton protection for it. 
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| fragzero wrote: | | redfox001 wrote: | | Well ok you did bring a point and I’ll try not to take it personal. Interesting topic from Mike Parker. I wonder how my modded Moome op port 3 will relate to this... |
I think people here would be interrested in the card |
It is an internal card with improved bandwith. Can't give any more information at this point. Have to test it first.
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fragzero
Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Those seem to be 1209 neckboards which work with lugs, should you use the cine 9 electronics use the 180 mhz neckboards.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Yes I think you are right.
I will probable end with only using the cable and connectors and tube housing with connectorprints and HV connectors from the 809. And that is still a lot!
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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One more question. On the front of the CRT housing there is a connector with 4 yellow wires that is normally used for the keypad. Can I somehow use this for an infrared sensor? Is there a sensor in the keypad? These wires go all the way to the mainframe.
I could of cause use another infrared extender but it would be nice 
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fragzero
Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure about that but i was wondering how many wires the rear IR sensor uses (which is probably the only IR sensor in your case?)
If it's 4 or less you can try rewiring the 4 pin connection and use it as an extension for the IR sensor.
However this might be problematic, found something written by Curt himself
| Quote: | I would take the rear IR sensor out of the set. Make sure the ground wire is connected to the shield of a 22/2 wire. I've extended them 50' with no issues, but not with CAT5. There's a data signal on one of the pins, and I'd think that would need to be shielded in order to work properly.
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So if it's unshielded cable it might not work.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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But that is a nice idea. I only have to go below the attic and direct it to the screen. Had not thought about that just take the sensor out the main rear and extend it 50 cm shielded below the attic.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | One more question. On the front of the CRT housing there is a connector with 4 yellow wires that is normally used for the keypad. Can I somehow use this for an infrared sensor? Is there a sensor in the keypad? These wires go all the way to the mainframe.
I could of cause use another infrared extender but it would be nice |
FWIW, I spent about 3 hours trying to convert a wireless remote to wired configuration in a Barco 909, that had the wired keypad missing when it came in. I couldn't do it. Seems that the polarity of the IR data stream is inverted, and the CPU wouldn't recognize the inverted stream. At least that's the conclusion I came to with the scope measurements I took. Very frustrating!!
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Well it turn out Fragzero has a wired pad from a Cine 8 that connects to the yellow wires Also has some IR sensors to try and a lot of spare boards. However the most important boards have been sold to Curt
_________________
701s->runco933->8500ultra->cinemax->9500mp->919 splitpack + cinemax
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