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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:08 pm Post subject: Bulb exploded in my digital projector |
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....5 minutes ago inside my digital projector that i use in the living room DAMN !!!!
Was brand new on replacement and only had 700 hours on it 
Any comments on this 
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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Use your avatar!
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Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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OEM part, or Chinese bulb?
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Original Epson OEM !
@Analog: Well you're right 
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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For TV and sports a digital is ok.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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I was told by Joel Silver from ISF that most digitals need new bulb every 500 hours to perform.
And my JVC lost all light output betwen 600- 700 hours, so i guess its quite normal.
I put a new bulb, and went analog. It lasts much longer that way.! 
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Bulb replaced with an old one (1700 hours). Up and running again.
Watching football now.
But loss of light output is enormous after 400-500 hours+
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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:37 am Post subject: |
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I'll bet if you closely inspect the debris you will find a baked on spider. It's actually common and the same thing that happens when you handle the bulb with your bare hands.
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | I was told by Joel Silver from ISF that most digitals need new bulb every 500 hours to perform. |
If Joel Silver mentioned replacing a bulb at 500 hours, I guarantee that he didn't make an across the board statement about all digitals needing this at 500 hours. That's absurd, and the light loss is very easy to plan for by using a manual iris, putting your projector into high output mode, etc.
| stridsvognen wrote: | | And my JVC lost all light output betwen 600- 700 hours, so i guess its quite normal. |
The X5/7/9 generation was very well documented as having Gen 1 (and in some cases, Gen 2) bulbs that were abnormal - their performance is not indicative at all of normal projector bulb light loss. The Gen 3 bulbs have been shown to have normal or even above average light output as they age. So no, your case is not normal. That being said, one can expect to lose between 30% and 50% of a bulb's light output by the 500 hour mark in most digital projectors, depending on the bulb model.
Since we're busy blithely making blanket statements, I'll go ahead and say that I'll take 50% light output from a bright digital any day over the low light output of all CRTs. See what I did there?
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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Last edited by HogPilot on Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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digitalayon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 921
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:16 am Post subject: |
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I change out OEM Epson bulbs monthly and they only last an average of 4-500 hours.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| digitalayon wrote: | | I change out OEM Epson bulbs monthly and they only last an average of 4-500 hours. |
What model of projector are you using? Your experience is certainly not normal for most home theater digital projectors.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:23 am Post subject: |
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I change my Epson OEM's after about 2000 hours in case they do not explode 
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | I was told by Joel Silver from ISF that most digitals need new bulb every 500 hours to perform. |
If Joel Silver mentioned replacing a bulb at 500 hours, I guarantee that he didn't make an across the board statement about all digitals needing this at 500 hours. That's absurd, and the light loss is very easy to plan for by using a manual iris, putting your projector into high output mode, etc.
| stridsvognen wrote: | | And my JVC lost all light output betwen 600- 700 hours, so i guess its quite normal. |
The X5/7/9 generation was very well documented as having Gen 1 (and in some cases, Gen 2) bulbs that were abnormal - their performance is not indicative at all of normal projector bulb light loss. The Gen 3 bulbs have been shown to have normal or even above average light output as they age. So no, your case is not normal. That being said, one can expect to lose between 30% and 50% of a bulb's light output by the 500 hour mark in most digital projectors, depending on the bulb model.
Since we're busy blithely making blanket statements, I'll go ahead and say that I'll take 50% light output from a bright digital any day over the low light output of all CRTs. See what I did there? |
Try read my post again, i helped you, marking some with red, I also just told about my experience and quote a person i think knows a bit about it.
But as usual u know better.
Most of us try to tell what we have experienced, why dont you tell about yours instead of run in beat us up with a stick, telling us we experienced wrong.?
And how you plan ahead and so on.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: |
Since we're busy blithely making blanket statements, I'll go ahead and say that I'll take 50% light output from a bright digital any day over the low light output of all CRTs. See what I did there? |
Dont know what CRT experience you have, but i find that my Marquee can go brighter than my JVC with new bulb when they are both calibrated, to please my needs, or at least as close as possible ( the JVC will never please me )
Normaly ill target around 10-12fl on my screen, and the JVC will do that.. It can push 18 fl in 3D mode and open iris.
But as soon i calibrate it and close the iris a bit so black dont look to gray, im left with around 12 fl.
Hi lamp mode and open iris, is a option, if someone dont care about black level.
I have measured 16fl from my calibrated Marquee, still parforming perfect black level.
I like your blanket statement, and its ok that you dont care about black level. It dont bother me what you look at.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | I was told by Joel Silver from ISF that most digitals need new bulb every 500 hours to perform. |
If Joel Silver mentioned replacing a bulb at 500 hours, I guarantee that he didn't make an across the board statement about all digitals needing this at 500 hours. That's absurd, and the light loss is very easy to plan for by using a manual iris, putting your projector into high output mode, etc.
| stridsvognen wrote: | | And my JVC lost all light output betwen 600- 700 hours, so i guess its quite normal. |
The X5/7/9 generation was very well documented as having Gen 1 (and in some cases, Gen 2) bulbs that were abnormal - their performance is not indicative at all of normal projector bulb light loss. The Gen 3 bulbs have been shown to have normal or even above average light output as they age. So no, your case is not normal. That being said, one can expect to lose between 30% and 50% of a bulb's light output by the 500 hour mark in most digital projectors, depending on the bulb model.
Since we're busy blithely making blanket statements, I'll go ahead and say that I'll take 50% light output from a bright digital any day over the low light output of all CRTs. See what I did there? |
Try read my post again, i helped you, marking some with red, I also just told about my experience and quote a person i think knows a bit about it.
But as usual u know better.
Most of us try to tell what we have experienced, why dont you tell about yours instead of run in beat us up with a stick, telling us we experienced wrong.?
And how you plan ahead and so on. |
Changing the color of the words in an incorrect post doesn't make it any more correct. No ISF or THX calibrator would make such a clumsily general statement regarding bulbs. Why? The only reason to replace a bulb that often is if you planned your screen size always expecting max light output from your bulb. Most people don't do this, as it would be costly and you'd rarely realize your baseline performance outside of the first 100 or 200 hours of the bulb's life; besides, there are plenty of LCoS, DLP, and LCD projectors today that are capable of putting out enough calibrated lumens to easily light up a 110"-120" screen in a light controlled room over the expected life of the bulb. Thus most people plan their screen size expecting a drop in light output over time; once a bulb hits 500 hours, they throw it into high mode and/or open up the manual iris to keep overall light output relatively consistent. Sure, most UHP bulbs do not yield stable spectral output over their life, so calibrations every 500 hours for your average user (this is a very rough ballpark number) and more frequently for enthusiasts fixes that problem. But replacing the bulb for this reason alone is akin to replacing your engine even though it just needs an oil change. Joel Silver is way too knowledgeable to have made such a bumbling, blanket statement like that. As I said, he may have put qualifiers on it, but then that changes the statement he made.
But you're not interested in any of this. You'd rather make statements based on your personal experiences - notably to include an imported, never warrantied JVC projector with heavily documented bulb issues - and then attempt to extend that to all digital projectors. Anyone who knows anything about projectors knows that the Gen1 - and to a significant extent Gen2 - bulbs used in the RS40/50/60 and X5/7/9 projectors were well below average in terms of life span and light output. The Gen3 bulbs fixed these issues for the most part. So no, I don't accept your personal experiences as valid statistical data that would allow you to generalize about all - or most - digital projectors, because it's not.
| stridsvognen wrote: | | HogPilot wrote: |
Since we're busy blithely making blanket statements, I'll go ahead and say that I'll take 50% light output from a bright digital any day over the low light output of all CRTs. See what I did there? |
Dont know what CRT experience you have, but i find that my Marquee can go brighter than my JVC with new bulb when they are both calibrated, to please my needs, or at least as close as possible ( the JVC will never please me )
Normaly ill target around 10-12fl on my screen, and the JVC will do that.. It can push 18 fl in 3D mode and open iris.
But as soon i calibrate it and close the iris a bit so black dont look to gray, im left with around 12 fl.
Hi lamp mode and open iris, is a option, if someone dont care about black level.
I have measured 16fl from my calibrated Marquee, still parforming perfect black level.
I like your blanket statement, and its ok that you dont care about black level. It dont bother me what you look at. |
Sigh. I guess I have to explain this to you more basically - I made that statement not because I believe it, but to illustrate the absurdity of the general statements you've made about digital projectors. I threw out a dogmatic, generalized statement about the light output of digitals vs. CRTs to try to back an untenable position. This is why I capped it off with "See what I did there?"
As an aside, I'm not sure what kind of bulbs you're using in your JVC, but my RS55 puts out just over 1,000 calibrated lumens. This has been confirmed by numerous reviewers, including cine4home. Your JVC is well documented to be capable of putting out almost as many calibrated lumens. If it's not, you're doing something very wrong, or you are using cheap/bad bulbs.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: |
As an aside, I'm not sure what kind of bulbs you're using in your JVC, but my RS55 puts out just over 1,000 calibrated lumens. This has been confirmed by numerous reviewers, including cine4home. Your JVC is well documented to be capable of putting out almost as many calibrated lumens. If it's not, you're doing something very wrong, or you are using cheap/bad bulbs. |
Original JVC bulb, on a 90" 16:9 screen with no gain, its 2m wide, and its a ISF screen.
Its on the 2nd bulb now, think there is around 300 hours on it and i doubt it will ever reach the 500 hours. Need to use it to go there.
Guess you dident get what i was trying to tell about hi low lamp mode and iris and black level.
There is no problem pumping lots of light out, but keeping a good contrast level and good calibration at the same time is another matter, And a JVC with fully open iris on a good bulb is way to gray to me.
There is a perfect good reason that i use a CRT as my prefered projector, it fits my preferences.
And i know you like the drama, so i dont expect you to try and read my post and understand that i dont say all Digital projectors are the same.
Joel Silver seems to be a realistic and serious person worth listening to, and ill prefer trust his experience over anything you have to say.
Here i quote someone with a lot of experience...
""Significant light fall off at 700 hours is absolutely normal - even though nobody but us likes to talk about that ""
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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I've had my RS56 for exactly one year now.There's just over 1000 hours on it. It uses a newer bulb than the previous years models where some of the early bulbs had light output issues (bulbs dimming early/bulbs dying early). They supposedly fixed these issues by the third generation of bulbs as mentioned above, but my model uses a completely new bulb as many of you (know. It's one of the reasons I waited a bit to buy an RS56 instead of an RS55).
I run an 8 foot wide 16x9 screen with ~1.1-1.2 gain.
I run the projector in low lamp mode with the iris at -6 (range is 0 to -15 where 0 is open all the way) and have been tracking the light output using a light meter as the bulb ages:
Projector installed early January 2013.
Apr 14/2013 - 424 hours: 10.5 ft/L
July 23/2013 - 646 hours: 10.4 ft/L
Nov 19/2013 - 931 hours: 10.0 ft/L
Note: I'm kicking myself for not taking a bunch of measurements in the first 400 hours as I was curious how it behaved during this time. I did not however notice a massive light drop off in the first ~400 hours. I never felt I needed to adjust the iris during this time. On my next bulb (already purchased) I'll definitely measure it every ~100 hours or so.
At 931 hours I changed the iris from -6 to -5 and light output jumped up to 10.7 ft/L.
This 6.5% change in light output is barely perceivable. I notice it of course as I play with the iris but if someone was to choose one of the two iris settings and ask me which one it was, I could never tell.
I've got 5 more notches of light increase I can get by opening up the iris more before I have to start running in high lamp mode, and I'm fairly confident I'll never have to go there which is great as the projector is quite literally dead silent in low lamp mode. On high (which is used automatically for 3D content) the projector's fan(s) are noticeable. Most people wouldn't care but I wouldn't be able to run it 100% of the time in high lamp mode without some form of hushbox/sound isolation which can get complex (forced venting required to do it properly).
All things said and done, I'm really pleased with this machine. I wouldn't change a thing.
Kal
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Strid,
First, did Joel tell you that in person or did you read that? Nothing really surprises me anymore, but that statement seems to general.
Second, you always seem to come into these threads and try to generalize your experience to all JVC. Unfortunately for you, the unit you have isn't that good and it is only one data point. Judging by Kal's experience, JVCs are great. Putting the two together, most would find the JVC to be average, which most HT enthusiasts don't find to be the case.
Hog,
There have been a lot of things that Joel and the ISF had said that are head scratchers, so I wouldn't read to much into this attributed statement. I remember Greg from THX saying he turns off all DIs, because they create a lot of problems. He wouldn't elaborate and I pretty much had less interest in attending a THX class afterwards.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | Strid,
First, did Joel tell you that in person or did you read that? Nothing really surprises me anymore, but that statement seems to general.
Second, you always seem to come into these threads and try to generalize your experience to all JVC. Unfortunately for you, the unit you have isn't that good and it is only one data point. Judging by Kal's experience, JVCs are great. Putting the two together, most would find the JVC to be average, which most HT enthusiasts don't find to be the case.
Hog,
There have been a lot of things that Joel and the ISF had said that are head scratchers, so I wouldn't read to much into this attributed statement. I remember Greg from THX saying he turns off all DIs, because they create a lot of problems. He wouldn't elaborate and I pretty much had less interest in attending a THX class afterwards. |
Its a general statment, but no more than you know that there can be a lot of difference from projector to projector.
So take it as it is, and never expect a long happy bulb life, be prepared to change every 700 hours or so, if it last longer its great.
Nobody know how a new model will behave, and no brands seems to state any true amount of lamp lifespan.
Maybe a projector can run 3000 hours if never turned off, but who use it like that.?
I have a old BENQ DLP with 1400 hours on the bulb, still alive, not very bright, but its alive.
Sorry if it sounds like that i try to pick on JVC specifik, i just write what my experience is, and have never comented on specifik lamp life of any other models, so please understand most of my post as my experience, other than that ill tell you my source.
I often ask others to post heatup measurements and so on to get a idea how different models behave, with no luck.
The way i see a forum is that each person post experience, and with time there might be a pattern, its another matter when evrybody guess and speculate, thats not usefull for anything.
I have preferences, others have other preferences. I like CRT. others dont. So we look for different qualities in our projectors. I think all digital projectors i have seen look artificial.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | There is a perfect good reason that i use a CRT as my prefered projector, it fits my preferences. |
Before I further contribute to the complete hijacking of the OP's thread, I'll simply say that the above statement is about the only reasonable thing you've said here. Everyone likes what they like, and there's no reason to have to justify or defend that to others.
However, I do - and will always - take issue with anyone who ignorantly tries to extrapolate their singular personal experience/preference - or misrepresents others' statements - to represent the experiences of the population as a whole. Understanding the distinction between your experiences (with a known poorly-performing unit) and the performance of lamps, digital projectors, etc. in general is something you seem to continually fail to do.
Helpful example: "I keep ordering Gen1 lamps for my X7 - mine lose 50% output by 400 hours and fail by 700 hours."
Unhelpful example: "I own an XYZ digital and it barely keeps up with my CRT for light output. My bulbs have all failed around 700 hours, and that's typical for most digitals. Even though you own an ABC digital, you can expect the same thing from yours."
If you cannot grasp the difference between the two statements above, then you and I will continue to disagree on these subjects for the foreseeable future.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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