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Poor sharpness in picture
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crt nuts



Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 58
Location: Wellesley

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Poor sharpness in picture

Hello all

I was wondering what I could possibly do to improve my picture sharpness from my V1 with HFQ LENSES. What , pray tell is the best screen size for the HFQ's. At the seated position , just behind pj (ceiling mounted) , it looks ok but once you start moving closer to the screen you notice softness of edges.
I also notice that my red (with c-element) has thicker lines on grid patterns than the other two tubes. Cannot seem to change this although I do see red convergence has quite a bit of drift until at least 45 min of warm-up time (seems excessive) has elapsed.

I have to say that I preferred the look of my 8500 with HD145 lenses as far as colour and sharpness goes. Maybe its because they were on different screens and or screen sizes. I was using a 8' wide screen on my 8500 and now I'm just over 9' on my V1. Its hard to say anything of the glycol unless I drain it first. My full white screen is pretty white with no shades of yellow at all.

8' was a Hurley superglow
9' is a Seymor Ice white

Any advise guys .

MG Thumbs Up

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject:

The sharpness loss might be due to the weave of the seymore.

Maybe cleaning the rear heat sink and adding a better thermal non conductive heat sink compound will help stabilize convergence.

Also try this loosen the reds LC mounting bolts, after an hour tighten them when the PJ is fully converged.

Nashou

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Poor sharpness in picture

crt nuts wrote:
Hello all
. At the seated position , just behind pj (ceiling mounted) , it looks ok but once you start moving closer to the screen you notice softness of edges.
I also notice that my red (with c-element) has thicker lines on grid patterns than the other two tubes. Cannot seem to change this although I do see red convergence has quite a bit of drift until at least 45 min of warm-up time (seems excessive) has elapsed.
Could be your screen, check the chassis hours on both machines, both on and standby. Do both machines have the original, 15 year old high hour boards? soft focus and convergence drift are typical on high hour machines.
If you've had the marquee HD modifications done to the 8500, then swap those boards over to the 9500. Here's some screen shots of how sharp it should be after all the worn parts are replaced and some filtering is done to the video neck boards

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=274463#274463
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stridsvognen
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Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject:

I agree.. Put the rear heat sink from your 8500 on to your VV1 and see if convergence gets more stable.

Im quite sure its thermal, so some new silicone tape, and tighten the clips.

I also have a 8500 a VV1 and a 9553 with HD10E lenses.

You should consider the latest MP VNB and VIM mod, it will kick sharpness ass. And white will pop pop pop.

Just make sure your tubes are in good condition.

No cap change will make much improvement unless the old ones are total burned out.

How old and how many hours is on the machine.?
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crt nuts



Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 58
Location: Wellesley

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: Poor sharpness in picture

draganm wrote:
crt nuts wrote:
Hello all
. At the seated position , just behind pj (ceiling mounted) , it looks ok but once you start moving closer to the screen you notice softness of edges.
I also notice that my red (with c-element) has thicker lines on grid patterns than the other two tubes. Cannot seem to change this although I do see red convergence has quite a bit of drift until at least 45 min of warm-up time (seems excessive) has elapsed.
Could be your screen, check the chassis hours on both machines, both on and standby. Do both machines have the original, 15 year old high hour boards? soft focus and convergence drift are typical on high hour machines.
If you've had the marquee HD modifications done to the 8500, then swap those boards over to the 9500. Here's some screen shots of how sharp it should be after all the worn parts are replaced and some filtering is done to the video neck boards

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=274463#274463


Sorry for the confusion Draganm. I no longer own the 8500 or the screen, actually the entire house as well. That was an unmodded (other than Moome card and HD145.s) machine with pretty high hours . My V1 actually came from Jim Paris I think, some mods done by Mike (neck boards and Vim or Moome cannot remember which) and Lugs,

Ive had it for about 4 years + now and it has 1002 hrs total time. Maybe I need to change the glycol.

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crt nuts



Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 58
Location: Wellesley

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:25 am    Post subject:

Nashou66 wrote:
The sharpness loss might be due to the weave of the seymore.

Maybe cleaning the rear heat sink and adding a better thermal non conductive heat sink compound will help stabilize convergence.

Also try this loosen the reds LC mounting bolts, after an hour tighten them when the PJ is fully converged.

Nashou


Thanks Nashou

Will try that tomorrow.

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Poor sharpness in picture

crt nuts wrote:
Sorry for the confusion Draganm. I no longer own the 8500 or the screen, actually the entire house as well. That was an unmodded (other than Moome card and HD145.s) machine with pretty high hours . My V1 actually came from Jim Paris I think, some mods done by Mike (neck boards and Vim or Moome cannot remember which) and Lugs,

Ive had it for about 4 years + now and it has 1002 hrs total time. Maybe I need to change the glycol.

if your glycol checks clear, then you can swap
1) neck-boards
2) RGB leads on the VIM board
3) RGB leads on the focus module (check your values in the Utility's menu RGB focus and make sure they're not radically different to start with as each tube will focus at a different point sometimes. switch the 2 that are the closest to each other in numerical value)
and see if the focus problem follows the switch .
If it's 1000 original hours, and no one re-set the hour counter, then it's hard to imagine worn out parts but bad parts are possible just from age too.
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stefuel



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:36 am    Post subject:

I know this will raise some STINK NUGGETS among the LC crowd but a AC projector should and will be sharper then a LC
projector. It's the trade-off you make for better contrast. If someone tells you they can make a 8500LC as sharp as a 8500AC, I have a bridge to sell you.

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stridsvognen
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Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:06 am    Post subject:

stefuel wrote:
I know this will raise some STINK NUGGETS among the LC crowd but a AC projector should and will be sharper then a LC
projector. It's the trade-off you make for better contrast. If someone tells you they can make a 8500LC as sharp as a 8500AC, I have a bridge to sell you.


Im qurious..

I have both a AC and a LC projector..


What is it that makes the AC sharper.?

Lenses ?
Tubes ?
The flat glass in front of the tube/ glycol.?
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:36 am    Post subject:

the glycol

It is true, my 1 on 1 off lines were tighter with the AC tubes in the longbows but the halo-ing killed any chance of eliminating the blend zone so I had to go LC.

But AC is Sharper than LC no doubt about it.

Nashou

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"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:27 am    Post subject:

Which AC lens to which LC lens? It is inaccurate at best to state categorically that "AC is sharper than LC".

SC
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:55 am    Post subject:

Hd 144 and HD 10E and yes AC was sharper with the Blend resolution I was using on each PJ 1064x800@72.

I never looked at any other res more closely. But that was the first thing I noticed when I swapped to the 9 inch tubes.
But the Contrast ratio was soooooo much better and no Halo's, I never realized how bad the halos were on AC till i went LC.

Nashou

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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:33 am    Post subject:

Hmmm, i must say the HFQ900s i have on my CineMAX seem to be every bit as sharp as my HD144s on the RUNCO DTV991, when viewed with an electronic blur in order to set for phosphor grain with binoculars.

There would be hardly anything in it.

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mp20748



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:37 am    Post subject:

ecrabb wrote:
Which AC lens to which LC lens? It is inaccurate at best to state categorically that "AC is sharper than LC".

SC


Exactly. But since sharpness is a subjective discussion these days, it would be better to say "in my opinion" or "from what I've seen"

None of the supposed AC lens that could confirm a "sharper image" would have the better lines/pair rating over a LC lens. And even the very terrible HD-8 lens could appear to be "sharper" over any of the best LC lens sets, but that depends on what you're using for the test.
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stridsvognen
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Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject:

If we stick to the Marquee 8500AC vs 9500lc, then i think some of the sharpness someone notice is the fact that the AC is brighter, and need less contrast to put out the same light, and then there is less bloming.

A direct comparison here ill prefer the LC on all parameters, other than light output.

Ill say that i might get close in the center of the screen, but just the ansi contrast and the halo thing on AC washes out more sharpness than there were to begin with.. In my opinion.. Wink

Not saying that there is no such thing as a AC projector that is sharper than a LC projector, im sure its just a matter of finding the right brand tube lens combination then you will get a wors LC machine than the best AC. Rolling Eyes

So just the fact that a CRT projector is a LC don make it good. Am i wrong.?
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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:56 am    Post subject:

I dont think blooming has anything to do with it, the P19s are brighter with less effort than the tubes used in the 8500

The XG exibits no noticable blooming at all, and i cant say the CineMAX does either until you push it WAY up.

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stridsvognen
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Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:09 am    Post subject:

CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
I dont think blooming has anything to do with it, the P19s are brighter with less effort than the tubes used in the 8500

The XG exibits no noticable blooming at all, and i cant say the CineMAX does either until you push it WAY up.


When was the last time you side by side compared a 8500AC with a 9500LC.? Wink
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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:53 am    Post subject:

Never, i dont generally bother comparing low-mid range projectors with high end units.

But id expect considering how good you claim they are they wouldnt suffer blooming so easily.

Im really quite amazed you think the 8" tubes in AC housings would push out the same or more light than the 9" tubes in LC housings, let alone with less effort.

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fragzero



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 344


Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject:

Using the technique described in Kal's calibration guide i have measured 19 ftL with my tubes maxed.

That was an 808 + HD144's with the same tubes a 8500 uses.

There must be a reason why, maybe it is because in a 8" tube the beam has to move less distance from left to right making it possible to increase the strenght at each point?
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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject:

fragzero wrote:
Using the technique described in Kal's calibration guide i have measured 19 ftL with my tubes maxed.

That was an 808 + HD144's with the same tubes a 8500 uses.

There must be a reason why, maybe it is because in a 8" tube the beam has to move less distance from left to right making it possible to increase the strenght at each point?

No. The electron gun is different to start with, spot size on the 9" tube is larger assuming both are using most of the tube face, lighting up more phosphor at any one point in time.

If i compare my CineMAX to my RUNCO with HD144s, the 9" is easily brighter.

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