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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Kurt read up on Calibration or do a search on PC vs Video levels. you are never to mix them it causes all weird issues. I NEVER touch white or Black in the XS. Only use the CMS and for those times where i watch TV( rarely on the blend) and the BD calibration is different, I then use the gamma factor to .93 which will rise the black level to where I like it.
Keep the level the same all the way, or you will clip or crush things. I think this is why you say you have elevated blacks on your marquee with the line mod.
Nashou |
Im aware of the levels, i just find that the 0-255 setting on the int moome will do perfect black and white clipping, and the 16-235 needs lots of corection from the source,
Are you sure you dont use the B option on the remote.? Or then i dont understand how you can run the radiance with no white level adjustment.
Do your radiance testpattern with black and white clipping display perfect? with no visible whiter than white.?
Im just douing it now. shifting betwen A and B on the moome remote, and same result no matter what vim, no matter what moome card. So im confused how we dont see the same thing.
My marquee is standard.
I think moome named the A and B wrong, but if anyone asks me ill say they need to use the B option on the remote labeled 0-255
Last edited by stridsvognen on Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | No youre reading it upside down. The manual i have says down is black boost off, 16-255, and RGB
Im still getting banding, and if i turn the brightness or CRT cutoffs down far enough to get black im losing all dark detail. |
I cant tell if the dip is the white or the black in the manual.. black displays nothing to me and white is like there is something, but maybe moome ilustrated the dip with a black, even they in real are white.
I find it a bit confusing.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Its hard to make a picture of white clipping, but i think it can be seen.
Its 1090P 60 hz 4:2:2 16-235 direct out of OPPO 83 into MOOME V3
And displaying A =16-235 B = 0-255 on the moome
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | see how the whites are pink, that is because of the conversion being wrong.
Just like here
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That picture is from what.?
How do yours look like direct from player to moome card with both options.?
That picture look like a digital with that fast color shift up true the grayscale.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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That is what happens when you try to calibrate via the XS with a different color level( 16-235 going in 0-255 setting in the XS out, or the other way around) . You should match them. there are a lot of posts on AVS and in other forums that deal with calibration only.
Derek from spectracal got me all squared away a few years ago when i had this issue. As soon as I should him it he knew what happened.
The Lumagen is assigned the color level depending on what you set it up for. I got the 95% pink when I was adjusting
100% . It looked right as I was adjusting it and then when I went through the 5% patterns I saw weird colors in them, the 10% looked perfect. It was the color level setting I had wrong.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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I get that too, what settings should i be using?
In the Panasonic ive changed it to YCbCr 4:2:2, which i didnt see a change, and deep colour is set to automatic, i dont know what that does. The instructions are not clear on its use.
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Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | That is what happens when you try to calibrate via the XS with a different color level( 16-235 going in 0-255 setting in the XS out, or the other way around) . You should match them. there are a lot of posts on AVS and in other forums that deal with calibration only.
Derek from spectracal got me all squared away a few years ago when i had this issue. As soon as I should him it he knew what happened.
The Lumagen is assigned the color level depending on what you set it up for. I got the 95% pink when I was adjusting
100% . It looked right as I was adjusting it and then when I went through the 5% patterns I saw weird colors in them, the 10% looked perfect. It was the color level setting I had wrong.
Athanasios |
Im not talking about the XS here.
Can we try stick to a blu ray player outputting 16-235 into the moome card, keep the radiance out.
How do your white clipping point look then. and is it different than mine.?
I always run 16-235 from player to radiance, and out of the radiance, the isue here is the moome card, so to keep it completly simple i removed the radiance, and tested what setting was the best match to a native output on the player.
Can anyone confirm my findings, or confirm its only my 3 moome cards, and 5 VIM that shows that behavior.
Running the Moome with neutral gamma setting, same for all OPPO settings, set to 0
What button should we recomend anyone buying a moome card and conecting it to a blu ray player.. A or B.?
Last edited by stridsvognen on Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | I get that too, what settings should i be using?
In the Panasonic ive changed it to YCbCr 4:2:2, which i didnt see a change, and deep colour is set to automatic, i dont know what that does. The instructions are not clear on its use. |
4:2:2 is perfect, and set deep color to off.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Well it aint right, scenes that would go completely black when i use the PC, dont go completely black. Completely black seems to be about 20-25IRE
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Oh I missed the comparison Kurt!! Dohh
Use A, that is the correct setting .
And Case that is where you need to calibrate the black level in the CRT a little better, but the mome gamma boost one click should stay black and help you see 10 ire. but it depends on what version. Moome had WTS help with Gamma on the latest ones. some didn't have that Gamma curve. most VIM HD.s and IFB's had it the externals are a crap shoot if you got the new or old gamma, at least that is what i think happened.
Nashou
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Oh I missed the comparison Kurt!! Dohh
Use A, that is the correct setting .
Nashou |
So the whiter than white is surposed to be visible ? Or should i correct that in the player.?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | pic A looks right you can see all the white bars.
nashou |
No you can see more than all the white bars, let me try another pattern, maybe its more clear.. That dotted line is the clipping point, there shoul not be any more visible bars after that.
Picture B is clipping exact at the dotted line.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the radiance pattern. No grayscale correction active.
Wich one do yours look like.?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Wait, what are you saying?
When white is cliping you do not see the other details in white.
But if you get white right all white patterns will show. |
If i understand you right, its not a problem not clipping whiter than white. As long as the White setting is to low, and displays a wider range than the source it will be fine?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:20 am Post subject: |
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some displays will show WTW other will not no matter how you calibrate or set contrast(white level in XS). So I forgot how the second pattern you show is suppose to be interpreted. I think the way you look at it is if you see all the patterns including the WTW bar ( first bar
top right box) than your all good. it is better than making that bar blend in , doing that will wash out variances in white in , say snow covered scenes. Because if you look at the first set of patterns you show, you can distinctly see more shades of white in A than in Pic B.
And more is better, on the top end but on the low end you never want to see BTB there is no info there.
I may be wrong on some points but to me the Pic A looks best in the first set.
Nashou
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:23 am Post subject: |
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We need a expert here.. Craig where are you..??
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