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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Clarence wrote: | This is fun...
When you pull the top mask down, the bottom mask is automatically pulled up by an equal amount. |
I always love your visulizations. Excellent. This is what I thought of doing too. How do you calculate the weight for the counter balance? Trial and error or will one masking roll equal the other?
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | so I don't have to go wade back through that giant thread, does the sheen on the laminate give you any glare or reflection at all? |
I've only noticed a very-slight "warm spot" on solid white scenes like Ice Age, hockey, or last night when the movie "Alive" was on (lots of snow scenes).
I'll try to take a picture of a solid white test screen for you to see if it shows up.
But the glare or reflective sheen isn't a problem with the WilsonArt laminate. It was a huge problem with the Formica laminate and $9 white tile board I tried a couple of years ago.
| AnalogRocks wrote: | | Clarence wrote: | This is fun...
When you pull the top mask down, the bottom mask is automatically pulled up by an equal amount. |
How do you calculate the weight for the counter balance? Trial and error or will one masking roll equal the other? |
As long as the masking sections are the same (or similar) in weight, it'll work fine. You don't even need a real pulley... an eyescrew would work fine.
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whats6x7
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 5924
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:44 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the help. Sorry to be lazy. I'm sure the answers are in that thread but it is HUGE. I think I'm just going to use the loop side of a velcro roll. No one in town has Veltex or any other velvet ribbon. The velcro is self adhesive and easy.
Thanks again.
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GEBrown
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 729
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Clarence wrote: | One new tip... do NOT try to roll the laminate backwards to try to mitigate the curl.
It will crack. 
But if you lay it upside down overnight, I suspect most of the curl will go away. But again, the curl isn't enough to fight against a screw every 6"-12" around the edges.
Here's the stuff I used for masking around the edges...
http://mysticalley.com/berwick_velvetribbon.html
"VELTEX BLACK VELVET RIBBON
Completely waterproof veltex, velvet type, ribbon from Berwick.
2 3/4in x 25 yards per spool."
It was only $7.95 for 25 yds... I only needed about 12 yards, but I had to order 2 rolls (enough for 4 large screens) to meet their minimum order.
Gary, I'd send you my spare roll, but I didn't do any moveable masking yet, so I'll probably keep it for experimenting. The light absorbing properties are incredible.
I wish it was wider. For adjustable masking, I'll probably use Black Fidelio velvet (link). I'm thinking about using a 10' PVC or steel EMT pipe with a hemmed and folded velvet drape and raise/lower it on pegs behind my speaker columns...
Here's a rough PPT sketch:
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For those thinking about this velvet tape, it has changed on the web site that Clarence gave. It is now 2 1/2" wide by 100 yds per spool for $16.95 plus $2 handling plus USPS Priority Mail. The minimum order is only $10 now.
Clarence, the picture they are showing looks like the same stuff you got, right?
Thanks
Gary
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| GEBrown wrote: | | Clarence, the picture they are showing looks like the same stuff you got, right? |
No, my stuff was Veltex (also by Berwick) and 2.75"...
"VELTEX BLACK VELVET RIBBON
Completely waterproof veltex, velvet type, ribbon from Berwick.
2 3/4in x 25 yards per spool."
The new 2.5" stuff might still be worth trying, but 100 yds 
I'd prefer wider, not narrower... maybe 3".
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| Clarence wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | | so I don't have to go wade back through that giant thread, does the sheen on the laminate give you any glare or reflection at all? |
I've only noticed a very-slight "warm spot" on solid white scenes like Ice Age, hockey, or last night when the movie "Alive" was on (lots of snow scenes).
I'll try to take a picture of a solid white test screen for you to see if it shows up. |
Here are the screenshots of the hotspotting. As usual, the digicam exaggerates the effect, but in this case, that's a good thing, because it helps illustrate what we're looking for.
Any screen greater than 1.0 unity gain will hotspot. The wilsonart laminate is 1.24 gain. Plus, the larger the screen, the more noticeable a hotspot will be. This screen is 9.5' wide.
A hotspot differs from brightness uniformity dropoff because as you move, the hotspot will move too.
Aside from the hotspot, primarily from the green tube, the colorshift and viewing cone dropoff is pretty much negligible from the extreme left and right sides.
To really geek it up, I pumped up the saturation of the first jpg to +100% in PaintShopPro. This shows the glare from the individual tubes. This is very similar to the effect that I got from the $9 tile board from Home Depot... it was too glossy/shiny.
I'd be interested in seeing solid white screenshots from other users.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: |
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New thread: post your hot spots. 
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Wow - thanks, Clarence! The Wilsonart looks like the perfect DIY sweet spot between matte white and a material with too much gain. I'll be running a 96" wide screen and sitting at almost 1x screen width and the wilsonart looks like the best option for me.
I just finished foundation insulation and framing and I'm right in the thick of insulation, electrical, and getting ready for drywall. I can't wait to get the fun sh*t like screens, masking, and building subs!
SC
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whats6x7
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 5924
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:46 am Post subject: |
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That was wwaaayyy too easy. I went to Wally World and bought $30 worth of 3/4" (thats 1.9 centimeters to my Canadian friends) velcro and used the loop side as a border. Anyone need 23' of hook-side, 3/4 inch velcro?
The wall is already black so the Velcro is just to hide the screw heads. btw Clarence, your right. 8' comes out of the box almost completely flat.
The screen isn't as white as my Painted screen. I'll need to use DVE to reset my colors. It is much sharper though.
Thanks again for all the help!
Tim
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GEBrown
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 729
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW I built and mounted my WilsonArt screen this weekend - WOW what a difference a good screen can make.
Previously I was using a Draper Clarion with M2500 material, but it was dim and soft. I bought it used on eBay and I could never get it clean.
But this WilsonArt immediately looked better. Sharper, brighter, better color saturation. A no brainer.
Thanks to Clarence for introducing us to this!!
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Cool! You had a productive weekend, Gary! Thanks for the update on the Wilsonart. I should be finished with the heavy construction stuff and building a screen in probably six weeks, so I'm getting pretty excited.
SC
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fuzzybee
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Clarence -
What did you end up doing for your masking? I was thinking along these lines, but I was considering using the salvaged guts from a motorized screen.
| Clarence wrote: | This is fun...
Here's design concept #4. Get rid of the magnets and do a very simple counter-balanced pulley...
When you pull the top mask down, the bottom mask is automatically pulled up by an equal amount. |
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Would regular wall anchors hold this up with the screws every 6 inches? What does a sheet of this stuff weigh?
TIA
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Just the Wiilsonart? Less than 10 lbs. According to Wilsonart the laminate weighs 0.186 lbs/sq ft for vertical grade, 0.322 lbs/sq ft for general-purpose countertop grade. So for an 85x48" screen, 28.33 sq ft, you'd be looking at 5.27 lbs or 9.12 lbs.
Assuming you put a frame on it, the frame will probably weigh more than the laminate.
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ecrabb
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Location: Utah
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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The laminate itself is very light - my 5x8 sheet was probably only 15 pounds, I'd guess - probably less. You could probably screw it every foot or less. In fact, if you could hold it up somehow, I bet the whole thing would hang in 10 or 12 screws without even using anchors. With fewer screws, I'd be more worried about "pillowing" or whatever you want to call it than I would about it falling down.
I think Clarence used some kind of fastener... mirror clips, maybe?
I wanted a perfectly flat surface, and I wanted the screen to stand off the wall, so I laminated mine onto 3/4" floor underlayment that had a 2x4 frame already screwed onto the back. Then, I attached a french cleat to the frame to hang it on the wall. The other half of the cleat was lagged into the wall studs with 4 lag bolts. It's not going anywhere. I put rope light around the frame on the back so the screen floats about 4" out from the wall on a "halo" of light... everybody who's seen it so far loves the effect. I turn it off when the movie starts.
The whole thing ended up way heavier than I anticipated - probably in the 200 lbs. ballpark. The 3/4" underlayment was nasty. I should have used 1/2". It sucked moving it from the garage into the basement. I feel sorry for whoever has to carry it out of the basement - it won't be me!
SC
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NateTTU
Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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I'm building my wilsonart screen this weekend. Thus far I have put together the velvet wrapped boards to make the frame but now I'm trying to cut the laminate. What way have you guys found easiest to cut this large sheet without cracking?
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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