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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:49 am Post subject: |
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Use a Radiance to correct the Gamma curve, i dont remember how much the primary green was off, but not much to do about that.
Thats why i told you that the P43 green is no good to do a 2D movie on. Poor light output, terrible grayscale and lots and lots of digital corection dont alow a CRT to shine.
Dont know how the colors look true 3D glases.
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I know that.
| Quote: | | Poor light output, terrible grayscale |
But, whats the best idea? If i do color correction, then green AND red.
Tinting glykol? (would be my favorite)
Software? Maybe a little complicated..
Changing the green tubes... don't like that idea, especially because the tubes are about rating 8
and there would be other things to do.
If i start to change tubes, i would rather change them to 9" LCs, just to rock the world and get rid of those
smeary HD-8Bs.
That would make necessary to change tubes, get colored C-Elements, get HD-10 (or good 9" lenses for curved screen)
and the 9500U neckboards.
Everything x6 for two projectors.
Doesn't sound cheap and like 2h of work. 
Regards, Julian
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Marquee 9500U edgeblend P43 | NEC 9PG
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| tschaeikaei wrote: | Yes, I know that.
| Quote: | | Poor light output, terrible grayscale |
But, whats the best idea? If i do color correction, then green AND red.
Tinting glykol? (would be my favorite)
Software? Maybe a little complicated..
Changing the green tubes... don't like that idea, especially because the tubes are about rating 8
and there would be other things to do.
If i start to change tubes, i would rather change them to 9" LCs, just to rock the world and get rid of those
smeary HD-8Bs.
That would make necessary to change tubes, get colored C-Elements, get HD-10 (or good 9" lenses for curved screen)
and the 9500U neckboards.
Everything x6 for two projectors.
Doesn't sound cheap and like 2h of work.
Regards, Julian |
Color corection do what it always do, but the P43 is just different and have different gamma curve, so there is no way posible to make it run a flat grayscale without digital correction.
And when you match the colors at 100% IRE you are stuck with the limited light output that the P43 will do.
Craig is the 3D expert, so you might ask him whats best, i guess you need a budget where money is not a isue.
Buy a Lumagen Radiance if u dont have one, and play with it. then tell us how you like the outcome, im not sure there is many others who did this with 2 8500AC machines, and i might think there is a perfectly good reason for this.
Instead of rebuilding the Marquee into 9" machines you just as well buy 2 nice G90 from Curt with LUG tubes, Craig have lots of 3D experience with those.
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:32 am Post subject: |
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To make some things clear: Money is an issue.
I'm not going to buy other projectors, that would not make any sense.
Why should I buy 2 G90 if I could change my 8500s to 9500 LCs?
Really, if i WOULD buy whole projectors, i would buy them in Germany.
Shipping two G90 from America would be about half a million or maybe a bit less.
Why do I need a lumagen? To adjust gamma and other color related things?
No, thats even possible via software. Must be.
I just wanted to avoid electronic correction as far as possible.
Therefore the glycol tinting.
So i see two ways: keep the projector as is and just tint red and green glycol.
Red gets good and green gets better, change the rest via some software.
Change only the green tubes to normal 180DBM22, i think that someone might want my 8 rated fast greens
and gives me his good normal greens.
Just have to find someone...
The real way sure was rebuilding to 9" LC, and because of many people here, that change their CRTs to digital projectors,
the chance of getting 9" equipment would not be too small (i hope so).
If this sounds offensive, i apologize for that.
Thanks for your reply stridsvognen,
Regards Julian
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Marquee 9500U edgeblend P43 | NEC 9PG
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:40 am Post subject: |
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9500LC Ultra machines often sell cheeper then buying tubes and stuff to rebuilt a 8500AC.
My point is just that use what you got, get the best out of it. Dont expect it to be perfect, or change them for something else instead of spending a fortune changing tubes and so on.
If i was you i would drop the 3D thing, get a normal green tube, and some cheep HD145 lenses, and go with it like that, and use the 2nd unit for spare parts, or sell parts to buy whatever parts u like, like a moome card, a green tube or whatever. And get some realy nice 2D out of it.
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't bother with tinting glycol, buy two sets of filtered HD145s make a lens adaptor and you are ready for a very sharp picture out of a 8" machine. I've seen both well setup 9" and 8" machines, and I would say the resolution is the least difference between them, LC is the biggest deal and color filtering.
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projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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I might need to mention that my P43 experience is from a PT22 tube in a 9500LC with dark green C element, mint low hour tube. And HD10E lenses.
And i never done any attemt to run 3D
Pictures of the actual projector and tube is in this thread..
https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=33795.html
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, I will try to get 2 normal greens in exchange maybe.
Could be that someone wants to go with shutterglasses and needs those p43 tubes.
Anyone here?
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Marquee 9500U edgeblend P43 | NEC 9PG
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Did anyone (maybe Nashou) test out the differences between HD-145 and HD-144 lenses?
I may get two good sets for a good price, but one set 144 and one set 145.
I'm willing to do a blend or stack with my 8500 ultras, so they must fit together.
Thanks
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| tschaeikaei wrote: | Did anyone (maybe Nashou) test out the differences between HD-145 and HD-144 lenses?
I may get two good sets for a good price, but one set 144 and one set 145.
I'm willing to do a blend or stack with my 8500 ultras, so they must fit together.
Thanks |
HD144 and 145 differs only in throw distance (slightly).
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | HD144 and 145 differs only in throw distance (slightly). |
Yes i already read that. But since i'm using CRT projectors, i could make one raster bigger than the other one.
Is the color correction the same or would i end up with different colors on the left and right in the 2 projector blend?
Regards, Julian
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| tschaeikaei wrote: | | Quote: | | HD144 and 145 differs only in throw distance (slightly). |
Yes i already read that. But since i'm using CRT projectors, i could make one raster bigger than the other one.
Is the color correction the same or would i end up with different colors on the left and right in the 2 projector blend?
Regards, Julian |
Why do that? Just have the PJ's staggered a bit. No big deal.
You'll need two Video Processors that can do Color Calibration, Greyscale and Gamma for at least 11 points.
Or you can get two VideoEq MX's from http://videoeq.com
This is a new model. Not bad to add Full CMS to a CRT or other display not having any extensive controls.
Athanasios
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:27 am Post subject: |
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I'm looking for a good colorimeter right now, but while i read (all the way bad) reviews on amazon, i'm still not shure if i need one.
color management seems complicated, but: i recently set up my nec 9pg, the color"calibration" was done in 5min, and the picture is stunning.
I'm always looking for a black crush or other fails in color- but there is none. it seems to be just perfect and i love it.
Makes me think that way: Since color calibration is not possible on a projector like my 8500s that have plain HD8Bs and P43 green,
i get color filtered lenses first OR tint the glycol.
The other thing is: Color filtering costs light. And in 3D, you already have few light. Maybe i just set the projectors up, leave the HD8Bs
and live with the colors.
Nash: I dont have the money for these, sorry. Either i don't use HDMI and will not. NEVER HDMI!
Maybe the easiest, cheapest and best way would be color filtering via software. Why do i need a box for that?
My homecinema will be 1 PC, 2 VGA cables, 2 projectors, glasses and a screen. 
Regards, Julian
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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If you already have a NEC 9PG you can test how the filtered lenses are working out on your marquee without aditional cost. The color filtered HD-6 lenses basicaly have the same color as the HD144/145s. If your marquee is floor mounted then put the HD-6 in place of the HD-8, you don't even need an adapter just a few thick books
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you already have a NEC 9PG you can test how the filtered lenses are working out on your marquee without aditional cost. The color filtered HD-6 lenses basicaly have the same color as the HD144/145s. If your marquee is floor mounted then put the HD-6 in place of the HD-8, you don't even need an adapter just a few thick books |
That's my way of finding out. Good idea, maybe i dindn't see the wood because of the trees (as we say ).
Bad that i didn't set up the marquees yet. Have to hurry!
Thanks, Julian
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thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Instead of tinting glycol, you could use a Rosco 106 Primary red filter, like I do. If the front of your lenses slopes inwards, like mine dose, you can easily fit them inside and they stay where they are. There's also primary green, but I don't need that one myself as I have a dark green c-element already. Red is very different from not using anything at all.. just orange looking. I noticed noos@xp37+ was using this from one of his videos on youtube, so I thank him for this, because It's a very good and cheap solution. About 10$ or so.. I bought 2 to be on the safe side but still on my first one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FULL-SHEET-48-X-21-106-PRIMARY-RED-LIGHTING-FILTER-GEL-THEATRE-TV-DJ-CLUB-/150740653721?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item2318d7d699
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Using that kind of color filters are always a compromise and highly undesired in AC setups, as they are introducing extra reflections in the optical path, worsening the contrast ANSI ratio, which isn't high on an AC machines anyway.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:10 am Post subject: |
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So i ask again: Anybody tinted a P43 green?
I set up one of the marquees yesterday. Just on the floor to test the green HD6CML a got.
Sadly, it didn't work. The lens would have to go far more in the mounting plate to get focus.
I just had a big green blob on the wall.
But: you see the difference. Normal p22 green in my nec is green, the p43 is more like yellow.
It's clearly visible looking on the glycol chamber.
Other thing is: i fired the marquee up and it threw a nice and bright picture.
Changed nothing but lens focus.
Then i clicked through the service mode 6500k calibration, changed nothing, just notet the values.
Since i did that, the picture is very dark. on all three tubes, like i lowered contrast to 15 and brightness to 20.
But they are 50/60.
Is this a known problem?
Regards, Julian
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Before you ask: I checked Heater voltage and it is 6,26V, like it should be.
Connected a laptop to make shure the problem isn't source-related...problem stays the same.
My guesses are: something in the LVPS or i hit some button on the remote, i did not know.
The onscreen- menu of the projector is bright, just the signal is dim.
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