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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:58 am Post subject: |
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You Clowns guessed it right  CRT (Seos 919 SP) it is. With the latest V10 modification 200mhz bridget chip. 1080p 72hz with a pixel clock around 197, latest Monster HD ISF cable up to 4k, radiance etc, etc.
This shot is taken with an iPhone because you guys like it so much to do so, right upper corner:
What do you think about it? Can it compete with modded Marquee or VW1000?
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Hahaha!!!
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| jbmeyer13 wrote: | 43 pages of B.S. and counting...
How about we just agree that Kurt's PJ is better than the Sony from 0-5 IRE and that the Sony is better at everything else.  |
The Sony hw50 from 0-5 correct
The vw1000 from 0-2 or 0-3 correct
Then all CRT
Hehe
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Francisco wrote: | You Clowns guessed it right CRT (Seos 919 SP) it is. With the latest V10 modification 200mhz bridget chip. 1080p 72hz with a pixel clock around 197, latest Monster HD ISF cable up to 4k, radiance etc, etc.
This shot is taken with an iPhone because you guys like it so much to do so, right upper corner:
What do you think about it? Can it compete with modded Marquee or VW1000? |
Sorry to disapoint you, but that look more like 100Mhz.. you miss a lot of bandwidth there. Looks like a nice focus ..
It needs to look more like this. + your focus.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Francisco wrote: | You Clowns guessed it right CRT (Seos 919 SP) it is. With the latest V10 modification 200mhz bridget chip. 1080p 72hz with a pixel clock around 197, latest Monster HD ISF cable up to 4k, radiance etc, etc.
This shot is taken with an iPhone because you guys like it so much to do so, right upper corner:
What do you think about it? Can it compete with modded Marquee or VW1000? |
Sorry to disapoint you, but that look more like 100Mhz.. you miss a lot of bandwidth there. Looks like a nice focus ..
It needs to look more like this. + your focus. |
Again it's a phone.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Francisco wrote: | You Clowns guessed it right CRT (Seos 919 SP) it is. With the latest V10 modification 200mhz bridget chip. 1080p 72hz with a pixel clock around 197, latest Monster HD ISF cable up to 4k, radiance etc, etc.
This shot is taken with an iPhone because you guys like it so much to do so, right upper corner:
What do you think about it? Can it compete with modded Marquee or VW1000? |
Sorry to disapoint you, but that look more like 100Mhz.. you miss a lot of bandwidth there. Looks like a nice focus ..
It needs to look more like this. + your focus. |
Again it's a phone. |
Again its still easy to get a bandwidth indication. This was basically what all the resolution argument was over. We are not looking for sharpness or ansi contrast here.
But the ability to reach the output, lets call it the color resolution/ 8bit at any given pixel resolution.
Last edited by stridsvognen on Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Francisco wrote: | You Clowns guessed it right CRT (Seos 919 SP) it is. With the latest V10 modification 200mhz bridget chip. 1080p 72hz with a pixel clock around 197, latest Monster HD ISF cable up to 4k, radiance etc, etc.
This shot is taken with an iPhone because you guys like it so much to do so, right upper corner:
What do you think about it? Can it compete with modded Marquee or VW1000? |
Sorry to disapoint you, but that look more like 100Mhz.. you miss a lot of bandwidth there. Looks like a nice focus ..
It needs to look more like this. + your focus. |
I'm sorry but explain me please how you can "read" bandwidth differences in these "iPhone" pictures, I'm curious….
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Francisco wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Francisco wrote: | You Clowns guessed it right CRT (Seos 919 SP) it is. With the latest V10 modification 200mhz bridget chip. 1080p 72hz with a pixel clock around 197, latest Monster HD ISF cable up to 4k, radiance etc, etc.
This shot is taken with an iPhone because you guys like it so much to do so, right upper corner:
What do you think about it? Can it compete with modded Marquee or VW1000? |
Sorry to disapoint you, but that look more like 100Mhz.. you miss a lot of bandwidth there. Looks like a nice focus ..
It needs to look more like this. + your focus. |
I'm sorry but explain me please how you can "read" bandwidth differences in these "iPhone" pictures, I'm curious…. |
All resolutions have to hold the same light output.. look at your vertical 1:1, its very very dark.. telling you that the signal is not fast enough to reach the output level.. The horisontal lines is the reference level.. They are long, and have plenty of time to reach level and finish peaking and whatever can happen.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:01 am Post subject: |
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From the vertical bars being dimmer than the horizontal ones.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Francisco wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Francisco wrote: | You Clowns guessed it right CRT (Seos 919 SP) it is. With the latest V10 modification 200mhz bridget chip. 1080p 72hz with a pixel clock around 197, latest Monster HD ISF cable up to 4k, radiance etc, etc.
This shot is taken with an iPhone because you guys like it so much to do so, right upper corner:
What do you think about it? Can it compete with modded Marquee or VW1000? |
Sorry to disapoint you, but that look more like 100Mhz.. you miss a lot of bandwidth there. Looks like a nice focus ..
It needs to look more like this. + your focus. |
I'm sorry but explain me please how you can "read" bandwidth differences in these "iPhone" pictures, I'm curious…. |
All resolutions have to hold the same light output.. look at your vertical 1:1, its very very dark.. telling you that the signal is not fast enough to reach the output level.. The horisontal lines is the reference level.. They are long, and have plenty of time to reach level and finish peaking and whatever can happen. |
Remember here that since his projector is much sharper than yours the camera will react more to the lines black and white than on yours.
Your picture defines just the white and the black do not exist much more, black floating into white. and Francisco shows more of the black and white lines. So I want to know how you can read this form a phone or camera. When different camera and different settings on camera. When it looks right on yours yes, but yours do not show how the pattern is. Francisco show more the lines in the pattern and defers better black from white better. Then his camera have more hard to show how this looks in real
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Francisco wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Francisco wrote: | You Clowns guessed it right CRT (Seos 919 SP) it is. With the latest V10 modification 200mhz bridget chip. 1080p 72hz with a pixel clock around 197, latest Monster HD ISF cable up to 4k, radiance etc, etc.
This shot is taken with an iPhone because you guys like it so much to do so, right upper corner:
What do you think about it? Can it compete with modded Marquee or VW1000? |
Sorry to disapoint you, but that look more like 100Mhz.. you miss a lot of bandwidth there. Looks like a nice focus ..
It needs to look more like this. + your focus. |
I'm sorry but explain me please how you can "read" bandwidth differences in these "iPhone" pictures, I'm curious…. |
All resolutions have to hold the same light output.. look at your vertical 1:1, its very very dark.. telling you that the signal is not fast enough to reach the output level.. The horisontal lines is the reference level.. They are long, and have plenty of time to reach level and finish peaking and whatever can happen. |
Remember here that since his projector is much sharper than yours the camera will react more to the lines black and white than on yours.
Your picture defines just the white and the black do not exist much more, black floating into white. and Francisco shows more of the black and white lines. So I want to know how you can read this form a phone or camera. When different camera and different settings on camera. When it looks right on yours yes, but yours do not show how the pattern is. Francisco show more the lines in the pattern and defers better black from white better. Then his camera have more hard to show how this looks in real |
Diddern.. again you dont seems to understand what its all about.. adressing pixels is one thing,, adressing the level is another..
You need to read all the resolution argument all over again untill you understand what this is all about...
You mixes the bandwidth with sharpness and ansi contrast.. They are also efected of the bandwidth, but that also depends of many other parameters..
Im quite sure he did a better focus job on the barco, and also have sharper LUG tubes.
Try evaluate the vidio chain, not the tubes and magnetics.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:39 am Post subject: |
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It is easy to see in the close up of this picture the light diffference in the horizontal and vertical, if you compare this to the VW1000 closeup I took it is cleary much better in the lightoutput than this CRT.
And also out of this picture you can see sharpness and ansicontrast is in another league on the VW1000.
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | It is easy to see in the close up of this picture the light diffference in the horizontal and vertical, if you compare this to the VW1000 closeup I took it is cleary much better in the lightoutput than this CRT.
And also out of this picture you can see sharpness and ansicontrast is in another league on the VW1000. |
Right.. and hopfully so.. It also shows that its not perfect as a 1080P dlp would be.. Do that make the DLP better..??
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Ah ok, maybe that will Hatch the rabbit that I lied about V10 modification and 197 pixel clock and so on. Changed my signature as well
It's just an un-modded 919 with ext. moome V2 and Crystalio II. Picture is shot at 1080P@60hz pixel clock of 148mhz. 
I think It's off just like VW1000 is off on 1:1 pattern 
But that's also not what the Greg Eisemann modifications are about, with his modifications he's claiming better focus and less picture noise. Personally I think there is still some room left to get a cleaner picture, (I don't know if I will see it from a distance, but ok) Also with newer HDMI solution I think I can get some better PQ than this. But I don't know if I will see when watching a movie. I'm sure not going to pay huge amount of $$, for dodgy claims…
I can post a 817P@72hz picture if that's any interest for you guys.
Here some screenshots, not that it worth much (I agree with Diddern)
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Francisco wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Francisco wrote: | You Clowns guessed it right CRT (Seos 919 SP) it is. With the latest V10 modification 200mhz bridget chip. 1080p 72hz with a pixel clock around 197, latest Monster HD ISF cable up to 4k, radiance etc, etc.
This shot is taken with an iPhone because you guys like it so much to do so, right upper corner:
What do you think about it? Can it compete with modded Marquee or VW1000? |
Sorry to disapoint you, but that look more like 100Mhz.. you miss a lot of bandwidth there. Looks like a nice focus ..
It needs to look more like this. + your focus. |
I'm sorry but explain me please how you can "read" bandwidth differences in these "iPhone" pictures, I'm curious…. |
All resolutions have to hold the same light output.. look at your vertical 1:1, its very very dark.. telling you that the signal is not fast enough to reach the output level.. The horisontal lines is the reference level.. They are long, and have plenty of time to reach level and finish peaking and whatever can happen. |
Remember here that since his projector is much sharper than yours the camera will react more to the lines black and white than on yours.
Your picture defines just the white and the black do not exist much more, black floating into white. and Francisco shows more of the black and white lines. So I want to know how you can read this form a phone or camera. When different camera and different settings on camera. When it looks right on yours yes, but yours do not show how the pattern is. Francisco show more the lines in the pattern and defers better black from white better. Then his camera have more hard to show how this looks in real |
Diddern.. again you dont seems to understand what its all about.. adressing pixels is one thing,, adressing the level is another..
You need to read all the resolution argument all over again untill you understand what this is all about...
You mixes the bandwidth with sharpness and ansi contrast.. They are also efected of the bandwidth, but that also depends of many other parameters..
Im quite sure he did a better focus job on the barco, and also have sharper LUG tubes.
Try evaluate the vidio chain, not the tubes and magnetics. |
But you must understand that if there is more black in 1:1 and more black on 2:2 and so on the camera wont manage to show it correct. And on your marquee there is more than 90% white and the original pattern is 50% 50%.
I also understand that your picture of the dlp lokks correct. But see the black and white.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | It is easy to see in the close up of this picture the light diffference in the horizontal and vertical, if you compare this to the VW1000 closeup I took it is cleary much better in the lightoutput than this CRT.
And also out of this picture you can see sharpness and ansicontrast is in another league on the VW1000. |
Right.. and hopfully so.. It also shows that its not perfect as a 1080P dlp would be.. Do that make the DLP better..?? |
What makes the DLP better with this testpattern than the VW1000 is mostly because it is a single chip I think. And I know no DLP can compare with the VW1000 in 2D picturequality not even the insanely expensive 3 chips from Sim2. But if you only sit and watch testpatterns all the time the DLP can be better. 
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 305
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Diddern is right about the camera thing. I will try to shoot a picture tonight with my Canon D40 with L 2.8 lens. Maybe it will capture this better. Also will take a shot of 72hz resolution.
Strisvognen please try to explain me why we need higher bandwidth? If we take 1080p@60hz we don't go over 165mhz pixel clock. 1080p@72hz we can configure as 817P@72hz because most movies are shot in 2:35 and will give us 148mhz pixel clock. Now 4K is a league to far for the resolving power of a single CRT, so why bother about higher bandwidth????
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Francisco wrote: | Diddern is right about the camera thing. I will try to shoot a picture tonight with my Canon D40 with L 2.8 lens. Maybe it will capture this better. Also will take a shot of 72hz resolution.
Strisvognen please try to explain me why we need higher bandwidth? If we take 1080p@60hz we don't go over 165mhz pixel clock. 1080p@72hz we can configure as 817P@72hz because most movies are shot in 2:35 and will give us 148mhz pixel clock. Now 4K is a league to far for the resolving power of a single CRT, so why bother about higher bandwidth???? |
I think you need to understand some basic stuff about Bandwidth, rise and fall time.. I understand it like how vertical the signal can go.. the time from off to on and the other way around.
If the on off time is not 0 it will be like ramping the signal more or less.
So actualy you need much higher bandwidth than the pixel clock..
To reproduce a 20khz audio in a ok way you need around 6x the bandwidth,
My preamp will do 2,5Mhz all the way true.. from riaa input to line out.
Same for everything else.. Higher bandwidth faster response.
Even at low resolution you will benefit from the faster response.
I dont think running 800P will save you.
So having just the bandwidth needet will let you reach the right output level, having a headroom, or much higher bandwidth will let you reach that level and hold it longer before it needs to be turned off.
Sorry for my drawing skills, but i try to ilustrate black is the digital signal perfect reproduction.. Green a good response on a crt, and the red like yours, a bad response.
The yelow angle ilustrate the bandwidth.. the more vertical the higher bandwidth..
So lower your resolution wont change your rise time, but you will get time to hit the right level.. Maybe.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Francisco wrote: | Diddern is right about the camera thing. I will try to shoot a picture tonight with my Canon D40 with L 2.8 lens. Maybe it will capture this better. Also will take a shot of 72hz resolution.
Strisvognen please try to explain me why we need higher bandwidth? If we take 1080p@60hz we don't go over 165mhz pixel clock. 1080p@72hz we can configure as 817P@72hz because most movies are shot in 2:35 and will give us 148mhz pixel clock. Now 4K is a league to far for the resolving power of a single CRT, so why bother about higher bandwidth???? |
I know  I tested this.
You have a nice crt +1 and god lucking pictures also.
What I mean is also important is that when you watch this at home, they should be all the same , but also important that the white lines are just as big as the black lines. And that black is black and white is white.
Not grey or a mixture of black and white.
The original 1080P pattern on the disk is clear black and white lines.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Francisco wrote: | Diddern is right about the camera thing. I will try to shoot a picture tonight with my Canon D40 with L 2.8 lens. Maybe it will capture this better. Also will take a shot of 72hz resolution.
Strisvognen please try to explain me why we need higher bandwidth? If we take 1080p@60hz we don't go over 165mhz pixel clock. 1080p@72hz we can configure as 817P@72hz because most movies are shot in 2:35 and will give us 148mhz pixel clock. Now 4K is a league to far for the resolving power of a single CRT, so why bother about higher bandwidth???? |
I think you need to understand some basic stuff about Bandwidth, rise and fall time.. I understand it like how vertical the signal can go.. the time from off to on and the other way around.
If the on off time is not 0 it will be like ramping the signal more or less.
So actualy you need much higher bandwidth than the pixel clock..
To reproduce a 20khz audio in a ok way you need around 6x the bandwidth,
My preamp will do 2,5Mhz all the way true.. from riaa input to line out.
Same for everything else.. Higher bandwidth faster response.
Even at low resolution you will benefit from the faster response.
I dont think running 800P will save you.
So having just the bandwidth needet will let you reach the right output level, having a headroom, or much higher bandwidth will let you reach that level and hold it longer before it needs to be turned off.
Sorry for my drawing skills, but i try to ilustrate black is the digital signal perfect reproduction.. Green a good response on a crt, and the red like yours, a bad response.
The yelow angle ilustrate the bandwidth.. the more vertical the higher bandwidth..
So lower your resolution wont change your rise time, but you will get time to hit the right level.. Maybe. |
Question for you mister.
Why is there NO black in 1:1 and even lower down, can you explain that? Then in H and V lines.. in your photos.
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