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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Here is the same pattern on my JVC X7 |
Is this a jvc vs sony
No no no CRT
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Here is the same pattern on my JVC X7 |
Is this a jvc vs sony
No no no CRT |
I think thats the area that Mike asked for, i was curious and put up the JVC to compare.. my room is with full daylight now.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Here is the same pattern on my JVC X7 |
Jvc not interesting...
Mike did not ask for 1080p projector he asked for the sony 4k.
To look for scaling artifacts.
CRT picks........
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Here is the same pattern on my JVC X7 |
Jvc not interesting...
Mike did not ask for 1080p projector he asked for the sony 4k.
To look for scaling artifacts.
CRT picks........ |
I dont remember he mentioned scaling artifacts..
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Here is the same pattern on my JVC X7 |
Jvc not interesting...
Mike did not ask for 1080p projector he asked for the sony 4k.
To look for scaling artifacts.
CRT picks........ |
I dont remember he mentioned scaling artifacts.. |
Then try to read again. Pics of CRT.....
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the best i can do with a standard neck board on blue tube, and fully daylight in the room.
So i have limited bandwidth and a bit of peaking on the blue tube.
And the old iphone 3 camera dont like 72hz..
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | Here is the best i can do with a standard neck board on blue tube, and fully daylight in the room.
So i have limited bandwidth and a bit of peaking on the blue tube.
And the old iphone 3 camera dont like 72hz.. |
Is this the best you can do? Take the picture at night if you let light in when it is daytime, my cinema is a total batcave with no light on any time of the day.
And Mike wanted to comment on the scaling artifacts and told us to post this testpattern to comment on the artifacts, but we need to take another picture to make him happy and Didrik will do that. I dont know why, but we will make this expert happy! If he could tell exacly what part of the picture he want we will be happy. 
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: |
And Mike wanted to comment on the scaling artifacts and told us to post this testpattern to comment on the artifacts |
Where did I mention looking at scaling artifacts?
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Here is the best i can do with a standard neck board on blue tube, and fully daylight in the room.
So i have limited bandwidth and a bit of peaking on the blue tube.
And the old iphone 3 camera dont like 72hz.. |
Is this the best you can do? Take the picture at night if you let light in when it is daytime, my cinema is a total batcave with no light on any time of the day.
And Mike wanted to comment on the scaling artifacts and told us to post this testpattern to comment on the artifacts, but we need to take another picture to make him happy and Didrik will do that. I dont know why, but we will make this expert happy! If he could tell exacly what part of the picture he want we will be happy. |
The center group of the image...
Yeah thats the best i can do.. but its quite good from a CRT.
Again i think you can relax, im sure mike knows a thing or 2 about projectors and video tech, that will benefit all of us.
Oposit Digital owners, we CRT freaks seems to have a idea of the limitations of our machines
And even with a bad neckboard on one tube, it seems like it have less color shift than any of the digital machines.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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error
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Last edited by Andreas21 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Here is the best i can do with a standard neck board on blue tube, and fully daylight in the room.
So i have limited bandwidth and a bit of peaking on the blue tube.
And the old iphone 3 camera dont like 72hz.. |
Is this the best you can do? Take the picture at night if you let light in when it is daytime, my cinema is a total batcave with no light on any time of the day.
And Mike wanted to comment on the scaling artifacts and told us to post this testpattern to comment on the artifacts, but we need to take another picture to make him happy and Didrik will do that. I dont know why, but we will make this expert happy! If he could tell exacly what part of the picture he want we will be happy. |
The center group of the image...
Yeah thats the best i can do.. but its quite good from a CRT.
Again i think you can relax, im sure mike knows a thing or 2 about projectors and video tech, that will benefit all of us.
Oposit Digital owners, we CRT freaks seems to have a idea of the limitations of our machines
And even with a bad neckboard on one tube, it seems like it have less color shift than any of the digital machines. |
your look pink!!!
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Here is the best i can do with a standard neck board on blue tube, and fully daylight in the room.
So i have limited bandwidth and a bit of peaking on the blue tube.
And the old iphone 3 camera dont like 72hz.. |
Is this the best you can do? Take the picture at night if you let light in when it is daytime, my cinema is a total batcave with no light on any time of the day.
And Mike wanted to comment on the scaling artifacts and told us to post this testpattern to comment on the artifacts, but we need to take another picture to make him happy and Didrik will do that. I dont know why, but we will make this expert happy! If he could tell exacly what part of the picture he want we will be happy. |
The center group of the image...
Yeah thats the best i can do.. but its quite good from a CRT.
Again i think you can relax, im sure mike knows a thing or 2 about projectors and video tech, that will benefit all of us.
Oposit Digital owners, we CRT freaks seems to have a idea of the limitations of our machines
And even with a bad neckboard on one tube, it seems like it have less color shift than any of the digital machines. |
How can you comment on color shift when these pictures is taken with different and sh*tty phone cameras and you watch it on a pc monitor??
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http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
And Mike wanted to comment on the scaling artifacts and told us to post this testpattern to comment on the artifacts |
Where did I mention looking at scaling artifacts? |
Here is what you wrote earlier:
I'm very familiar with what happens when you put a lower resolution into a 4K projector. And though they say there are no artifacts, that's far from the truth. And you can contact Sony and they will explain to you that the internal "scaler" also does other things to diminish the artifacts, meaning there's a lot going on. or to put it different, the projector is also in the "cover up" mode.
here's the deal with digital technology... If your source is 1920X1080P (refresh does not matter here) the display device must also be 1920X1080P - in the event, there is not a direct pixel to pixel handshaking going on, the image is being compromised. And because you're not seeing anything or if the shortcomings of running compromised rates are not being displayed.. trust me they are there. To me they would jump off the screen, but for someone new to a native 4K display, they would instead have the oohs and ahhs.
So whenever a digital projector is not doing a pixel to pixel handshake, it will produce a compromised image. And that's an image that's not worthy to be used in a competition.
lets also look at it another way. based on the two projectors involved, both projected a compromised image. The Barco most likely was not able to properly resolved the 1920X1080P image, nor neither was the Sony, because neither of them were capable of fully/properly resolving the NATIVE image rate... but at the end of the day, the Sony was brighter and sharper, and you know what that means.......
So I hereby void that test all together...
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Here is the best i can do with a standard neck board on blue tube, and fully daylight in the room.
So i have limited bandwidth and a bit of peaking on the blue tube.
And the old iphone 3 camera dont like 72hz.. |
Is this the best you can do? Take the picture at night if you let light in when it is daytime, my cinema is a total batcave with no light on any time of the day.
And Mike wanted to comment on the scaling artifacts and told us to post this testpattern to comment on the artifacts, but we need to take another picture to make him happy and Didrik will do that. I dont know why, but we will make this expert happy! If he could tell exacly what part of the picture he want we will be happy. |
The center group of the image...
Yeah thats the best i can do.. but its quite good from a CRT.
Again i think you can relax, im sure mike knows a thing or 2 about projectors and video tech, that will benefit all of us.
Oposit Digital owners, we CRT freaks seems to have a idea of the limitations of our machines
And even with a bad neckboard on one tube, it seems like it have less color shift than any of the digital machines. |
How can you comment on color shift when these pictures is taken with different and sh*tty phone cameras and you watch it on a pc monitor?? |
i seen a few of these patterns and level and color shift seems to be the only thing the camera normaly gets right,, not meaning the colors are right, but should be the same on both vertical and horisontal lines. And the pictures are low resolution so not chalenging bandwidth on the laptop.. who actualy is the best display i have to make a perfect 1:1 pattern.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Here is the best i can do with a standard neck board on blue tube, and fully daylight in the room.
So i have limited bandwidth and a bit of peaking on the blue tube.
And the old iphone 3 camera dont like 72hz.. |
Is this the best you can do? Take the picture at night if you let light in when it is daytime, my cinema is a total batcave with no light on any time of the day.
And Mike wanted to comment on the scaling artifacts and told us to post this testpattern to comment on the artifacts, but we need to take another picture to make him happy and Didrik will do that. I dont know why, but we will make this expert happy! If he could tell exacly what part of the picture he want we will be happy. |
The center group of the image...
Yeah thats the best i can do.. but its quite good from a CRT.
Again i think you can relax, im sure mike knows a thing or 2 about projectors and video tech, that will benefit all of us.
Oposit Digital owners, we CRT freaks seems to have a idea of the limitations of our machines
And even with a bad neckboard on one tube, it seems like it have less color shift than any of the digital machines. |
your look pink!!! |
Yeahh.. they do.. And.? What do that mean.. See try analyse the images instead of defending or picking on some tech.. Try understand the meaning of what you see.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
And Mike wanted to comment on the scaling artifacts and told us to post this testpattern to comment on the artifacts |
Where did I mention looking at scaling artifacts? |
Here is what you wrote earlier:
I'm very familiar with what happens when you put a lower resolution into a 4K projector. And though they say there are no artifacts, that's far from the truth. And you can contact Sony and they will explain to you that the internal "scaler" also does other things to diminish the artifacts, meaning there's a lot going on. or to put it different, the projector is also in the "cover up" mode.
here's the deal with digital technology... If your source is 1920X1080P (refresh does not matter here) the display device must also be 1920X1080P - in the event, there is not a direct pixel to pixel handshaking going on, the image is being compromised. And because you're not seeing anything or if the shortcomings of running compromised rates are not being displayed.. trust me they are there. To me they would jump off the screen, but for someone new to a native 4K display, they would instead have the oohs and ahhs.
So whenever a digital projector is not doing a pixel to pixel handshake, it will produce a compromised image. And that's an image that's not worthy to be used in a competition.
lets also look at it another way. based on the two projectors involved, both projected a compromised image. The Barco most likely was not able to properly resolved the 1920X1080P image, nor neither was the Sony, because neither of them were capable of fully/properly resolving the NATIVE image rate... but at the end of the day, the Sony was brighter and sharper, and you know what that means.......
So I hereby void that test all together... |
Ok, let's look back over this, and see where I mentioned "artifacts" but also note that my focus was on cover up and compromise. can you also see what I mentioned here:
"if the shortcomings of running compromised rates are not being displayed.. trust me they are there"
Just post the entire pattern, and I'll show you what I had mentioned that's not usually seen or noticed so easily.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | Here is the best i can do with a standard neck board on blue tube, and fully daylight in the room.
So i have limited bandwidth and a bit of peaking on the blue tube.
And the old iphone 3 camera dont like 72hz.. |
Is this the best you can do? Take the picture at night if you let light in when it is daytime, my cinema is a total batcave with no light on any time of the day.
And Mike wanted to comment on the scaling artifacts and told us to post this testpattern to comment on the artifacts, but we need to take another picture to make him happy and Didrik will do that. I dont know why, but we will make this expert happy! If he could tell exacly what part of the picture he want we will be happy. |
The center group of the image...
Yeah thats the best i can do.. but its quite good from a CRT.
Again i think you can relax, im sure mike knows a thing or 2 about projectors and video tech, that will benefit all of us.
Oposit Digital owners, we CRT freaks seems to have a idea of the limitations of our machines
And even with a bad neckboard on one tube, it seems like it have less color shift than any of the digital machines. |
I am shore that everyone sees that the VW1000 pictures that I posted taken close to screen and Zero convergence on the nec pattern, and the DVE pattern shows that nothing is close to this, if so show me...
This has been the discussion form the start that a Barco or CRT is close to a VW1000. Its on a another planet compared.
What I have said the hole time.
Good luck on this I really wait to see something better than Stridsvognen`s picks.
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
And Mike wanted to comment on the scaling artifacts and told us to post this testpattern to comment on the artifacts |
Where did I mention looking at scaling artifacts? |
Here is what you wrote earlier:
I'm very familiar with what happens when you put a lower resolution into a 4K projector. And though they say there are no artifacts, that's far from the truth. And you can contact Sony and they will explain to you that the internal "scaler" also does other things to diminish the artifacts, meaning there's a lot going on. or to put it different, the projector is also in the "cover up" mode.
here's the deal with digital technology... If your source is 1920X1080P (refresh does not matter here) the display device must also be 1920X1080P - in the event, there is not a direct pixel to pixel handshaking going on, the image is being compromised. And because you're not seeing anything or if the shortcomings of running compromised rates are not being displayed.. trust me they are there. To me they would jump off the screen, but for someone new to a native 4K display, they would instead have the oohs and ahhs.
So whenever a digital projector is not doing a pixel to pixel handshake, it will produce a compromised image. And that's an image that's not worthy to be used in a competition.
lets also look at it another way. based on the two projectors involved, both projected a compromised image. The Barco most likely was not able to properly resolved the 1920X1080P image, nor neither was the Sony, because neither of them were capable of fully/properly resolving the NATIVE image rate... but at the end of the day, the Sony was brighter and sharper, and you know what that means.......
So I hereby void that test all together... |
Ok, let's look back over this, and see where I mentioned "artifacts" but also note that my focus was on cover up and compromise. can you also see what I mentioned here:
"if the shortcomings of running compromised rates are not being displayed.. trust me they are there"
Just post the entire pattern, and I'll show you what I had mentioned that's not usually seen or noticed so easily. |
You told us to take a close up of the center of the screen and we did. And you also said that the artifacts would jump of the screen to you. So now we must take a picture of the entire pattern to please you?? Can you take a picture of your Marquee with the same pattern and post it here? Please.
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http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
And Mike wanted to comment on the scaling artifacts and told us to post this testpattern to comment on the artifacts |
Where did I mention looking at scaling artifacts? |
Here is what you wrote earlier:
I'm very familiar with what happens when you put a lower resolution into a 4K projector. And though they say there are no artifacts, that's far from the truth. And you can contact Sony and they will explain to you that the internal "scaler" also does other things to diminish the artifacts, meaning there's a lot going on. or to put it different, the projector is also in the "cover up" mode.
here's the deal with digital technology... If your source is 1920X1080P (refresh does not matter here) the display device must also be 1920X1080P - in the event, there is not a direct pixel to pixel handshaking going on, the image is being compromised. And because you're not seeing anything or if the shortcomings of running compromised rates are not being displayed.. trust me they are there. To me they would jump off the screen, but for someone new to a native 4K display, they would instead have the oohs and ahhs.
So whenever a digital projector is not doing a pixel to pixel handshake, it will produce a compromised image. And that's an image that's not worthy to be used in a competition.
lets also look at it another way. based on the two projectors involved, both projected a compromised image. The Barco most likely was not able to properly resolved the 1920X1080P image, nor neither was the Sony, because neither of them were capable of fully/properly resolving the NATIVE image rate... but at the end of the day, the Sony was brighter and sharper, and you know what that means.......
So I hereby void that test all together... |
Ok, let's look back over this, and see where I mentioned "artifacts" but also note that my focus was on cover up and compromise. can you also see what I mentioned here:
"if the shortcomings of running compromised rates are not being displayed.. trust me they are there"
Just post the entire pattern, and I'll show you what I had mentioned that's not usually seen or noticed so easily. |
This is what you asked us to do:
Once you've done that, get out your camera (or cell phone camera) and take a close up picture of the center pattern group. after you've taking the picture, post it here.
And that was exactly what Diddern did, but now you ask for the hole pattern?
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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The secret hard to understand word must be PATTERN GROUP..
You can see on my pictures what i think it means.. Im not native english speaking
so ill not argue with one about what he mean when he writes something.
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