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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | And stridsvognen I have already said there is a lot of compromises, and there is with all display and PJ technology. But as usual you don´t read my posts and just ask the same questions over and over even when I say I can not answer all of them.
You on the other hand just ignore my questions. |
So you agree that a calibration is not proof that your image on screen is perfect?
And will you accept that we are some who will select the CRT if we have that and a new JVC X900 on a table in front of us and can go away with 1 of them for free.? And that we have just as good a reason for that as you have to select the JVC.?
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Craig Rounds a pro calibrator tried and He just dismissed him in other threads.
It is pointless.
Nashou |
Sure it is, he sell Lumagen and G90 for a living.. Give me a good reason why he should like me.?
At least Andreas will then agree with me that the JVC is better than the G90, and that none of us would want a Lumagen in the video chain with the issues they have these days.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Craig Rounds a pro calibrator tried and He just dismissed him in other threads.
It is pointless.
Nashou |
What a shock hehe
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Craig Rounds a pro calibrator tried and He just dismissed him in other threads.
It is pointless.
Nashou |
Sure it is, he sell Lumagen and G90 for a living.. Give me a good reason why he should like me.?
At least Andreas will then agree with me that the JVC is better than the G90, and that none of us would want a Lumagen in the video chain with the issues they have these days.
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But your saying a CRT doesn't need a calibration with a Probe, only by Eye to get REC709. That is a false
and misleading statement.
And that JVC is better than your Marquee in more ways than your marquee is better than that JVC and I love Marquee's but I know the truth when I see it. And Cliffs Stack is the best CRT Image I have ever seen, Dual G90's no mods.
And we don't need to look at patterns all day to come to that conclusion. We watched movies not patterns.
I'll be gone for a while, I have to go Calibrate my Blend with Calman 5 Professional my PR 650 and i1 Pro D3 profiled to it.
I can not trust my eyes alone .
Nashou
_________________
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: |
And will you accept that we are some who will select the CRT if we have that and a new JVC X900 on a table in front of us and can go away with 1 of them for free.? And that we have just as good a reason for that as you have to select the JVC.? |
If you had that pick and picked a CRT today you really need a doctor 
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Craig Rounds a pro calibrator tried and He just dismissed him in other threads.
It is pointless.
Nashou |
Sure it is, he sell Lumagen and G90 for a living.. Give me a good reason why he should like me.?
At least Andreas will then agree with me that the JVC is better than the G90, and that none of us would want a Lumagen in the video chain with the issues they have these days.
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But your saying a CRT doesn't need a calibration with a Probe, only by Eye to get REC709. That is a false
and misleading statement.
And that JVC is better than your Marquee in more ways than your marquee is better than that JVC and I love Marquee's but I know the truth when I see it. And Cliffs Stack is the best CRT Image I have ever seen, Dual G90's no mods.
And we don't need to look at patterns all day to come to that conclusion. We watched movies not patterns.
I'll be gone for a while, I have to go Calibrate my Blend with Calman 5 Professional my PR 650 and i1 Pro D3 profiled to it.
I can not trust my eyes alone .
Nashou |
+100
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | And stridsvognen I have already said there is a lot of compromises, and there is with all display and PJ technology. But as usual you don´t read my posts and just ask the same questions over and over even when I say I can not answer all of them.
You on the other hand just ignore my questions. |
So you agree that a calibration is not proof that your image on screen is perfect?
And will you accept that we are some who will select the CRT if we have that and a new JVC X900 on a table in front of us and can go away with 1 of them for free.? And that we have just as good a reason for that as you have to select the JVC.? |
I agree with you that all displays and PJ has compromises. But if you want to come as close to "perfect" as possible you need to calibrate with the right tools, but it is of corse not perfect and without compromises, I have never said that. Your CRT is also full of compromises.
I have also said I am not here to convert you, I am just fed up with these kind of topics. You are of corse free to use what ever PJ you want, and I have never said anything else.
You can not say the same about everybody in here.
But otherwise I disagree with every statement you posted here about calibration and almost everything else.
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
Last edited by Andreas21 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Craig Rounds a pro calibrator tried and He just dismissed him in other threads.
It is pointless.
Nashou |
Sure it is, he sell Lumagen and G90 for a living.. Give me a good reason why he should like me.?
At least Andreas will then agree with me that the JVC is better than the G90, and that none of us would want a Lumagen in the video chain with the issues they have these days.
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But your saying a CRT doesn't need a calibration with a Probe, only by Eye to get REC709. That is a false
and misleading statement.
And that JVC is better than your Marquee in more ways than your marquee is better than that JVC and I love Marquee's but I know the truth when I see it. And Cliffs Stack is the best CRT Image I have ever seen, Dual G90's no mods.
And we don't need to look at patterns all day to come to that conclusion. We watched movies not patterns.
I'll be gone for a while, I have to go Calibrate my Blend with Calman 5 Professional my PR 650 and i1 Pro D3 profiled to it.
I can not trust my eyes alone .
Nashou |
+1
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Craig Rounds a pro calibrator tried and He just dismissed him in other threads.
It is pointless.
Nashou |
Sure it is, he sell Lumagen and G90 for a living.. Give me a good reason why he should like me.?
At least Andreas will then agree with me that the JVC is better than the G90, and that none of us would want a Lumagen in the video chain with the issues they have these days.
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But your saying a CRT doesn't need a calibration with a Probe, only by Eye to get REC709. That is a false
and misleading statement.
And that JVC is better than your Marquee in more ways than your marquee is better than that JVC and I love Marquee's but I know the truth when I see it. And Cliffs Stack is the best CRT Image I have ever seen, Dual G90's no mods.
And we don't need to look at patterns all day to come to that conclusion. We watched movies not patterns.
I'll be gone for a while, I have to go Calibrate my Blend with Calman 5 Professional my PR 650 and i1 Pro D3 profiled to it.
I can not trust my eyes alone .
Nashou |
I never say i dont need a probe, why do you think i have one, and i think you remember me posting calibration files of different CRT setups.. The thing is you can make a CRT look damn good by eye, what is almost impossible with a digital.
Ask Justin if i had the need to rush out get his projector calibrated with a 7000$ meter, after we tweaked it.
I also never claim anything to be better, i say i prefer the Marquee, specially with the mods, and ill never go back to live with a standard Marquee, or a G90 for that matter.
Im all crazy about the way Mike make the Marquee perform, and i doubt there will be something around the corner to make me change direction.
Im quit new to CRT, its not like i started there, or got stuck inside one while growing up.
I also think you know ill buy whatever gear ill like to try, analog digital or whatever.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| HogPilot wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | | It has seen better days, but it's still my buddy and help even when using the meter and PC methods |
I was looking for more of an informational link, but yes you're right, it's definitely seen better days. When is the last time you sent that in to have it certified? Edit: Sorry, also forgot to ask - what type of probe is that? Colorimeter? Spectroradiometer? Something else?
And you said that results were a critical part of a calibration - you seem to have omitted my request for results when you quoted me last. Maybe you just missed it. What are the results of your most recent calibration as I originally requested?
Given that you have no more comments about my assessment of other-than D65 optical light sources for calibration (or worse yet, no light source at all), I'll assume you agree with me about the worthlessness of such an exercise. |
+100
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="stridsvognen"][quote="Andreas21"]
stridsvognen wrote:
You still dont get the point do you ?
We like CRT for what it do well, you like the JVC for what it do well, and you have no clue, or cant imagine why we dont prefer the JVC.
Let me in on this I really want to understand, after pictures here and all the side by side tests I have done the last 6 years.
Let me in....Tell me....
Picture quality why CRT?
Ignoring again?
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Stridsvognen halo dansken!!!
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| stridsvognen wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Craig Rounds a pro calibrator tried and He just dismissed him in other threads.
It is pointless.
Nashou |
Sure it is, he sell Lumagen and G90 for a living.. Give me a good reason why he should like me.?
At least Andreas will then agree with me that the JVC is better than the G90, and that none of us would want a Lumagen in the video chain with the issues they have these days.
|
But your saying a CRT doesn't need a calibration with a Probe, only by Eye to get REC709. That is a false
and misleading statement.
And that JVC is better than your Marquee in more ways than your marquee is better than that JVC and I love Marquee's but I know the truth when I see it. And Cliffs Stack is the best CRT Image I have ever seen, Dual G90's no mods.
And we don't need to look at patterns all day to come to that conclusion. We watched movies not patterns.
I'll be gone for a while, I have to go Calibrate my Blend with Calman 5 Professional my PR 650 and i1 Pro D3 profiled to it.
I can not trust my eyes alone .
Nashou |
I never say i dont need a probe, why do you think i have one, and i think you remember me posting calibration files of different CRT setups.. The thing is you can make a CRT look damn good by eye, what is almost impossible with a digital.
Ask Justin if i had the need to rush out get his projector calibrated with a 7000$ meter, after we tweaked it.
I also never claim anything to be better, i say i prefer the Marquee, specially with the mods, and ill never go back to live with a standard Marquee, or a G90 for that matter.
Im all crazy about the way Mike make the Marquee perform, and i doubt there will be something around the corner to make me change direction.
Im quit new to CRT, its not like i started there, or got stuck inside one while growing up.
I also think you know ill buy whatever gear ill like to try, analog digital or whatever. |
It is not hard to make the latest Sonys and JVC´s to look good by eye, beacause if you know what pre setting to put it at most of them are very close to bt709 out of the box.
And also if you have a clue of what you are doing you can get a digital to look as good as a CRT by eye, but it is just stupid to even claim you can do this well by eye. And if Justin was happy with your by eye calibration he is ignorant and there is a saying: Ignorance i bliss.
Also you have a problem with only having a colorimeter and not have a spectroradiometer to profile it with, when you don´t profile your colorimeter you have no idea if it measures "correct" or not, but you already knew that did you not? And also your colorimeter needs to be sent in for recalibration on a regular basis, do you do that?
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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I think I see where Kurt is going with his opinion on calibration and I agree. While I would always use an instrument calibration as a reference point, it is not the be all end all. I have seen it more than a couple of times where the calibration though measured accurate looks like crap. This has been in the past and software/instruments have progressed a great deal in the last decade. I still think there is a lot more evolution in the display industry both in the technology and the understanding.
A quick story related to this. I remember the first time I visited VDC about a decade ago. Scott told me that CRTs would remain in sims, because digitals could not do motion very well. This was the first time I had heard of motion resolution. At Infocomm '06, Darinp2 asked me what I thought about the new 1080p DP dlp projector. I thought it looked great but there was something off about it. I didn't put two and two together at that moment, but it was the motion resolution that I didn't like.
I think it was around '08 or '09 that a couple of AVS threads popped up talking about motion on digitals. I think a lot of people just didn't give it much thought even though they could probably see the problem. Hell, I remember at Cedia '09 the former head of Marantz going on about how great his RPTV CRT looked in fast moving scenes and on that Japanese test disc. He even said that the digitals couldn't equal it, but I don't recall him ever saying the term motion resolution.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Stridsvognen!!!!!!
Dansken!!!! Har du gått i ydmykelsesdvale.
Answer my question.
And here some more. Why do you need red and green c-element on crt?
What happens with color red and green when using filters when messhuring primary colors up to HDTV D65 Rec709 on a CRT with pro equipments .?
What happens to the colors if you have to much punch in the picture on your crt.
What happens to the total black on a CRT if you adjust hundred percent correct after video level 16 to 235 with no black crush?
what is your reference gamma?
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Craig Rounds a pro calibrator tried and He just dismissed him in other threads.
It is pointless.
Nashou |
Sure it is, he sell Lumagen and G90 for a living.. Give me a good reason why he should like me.?
At least Andreas will then agree with me that the JVC is better than the G90, and that none of us would want a Lumagen in the video chain with the issues they have these days.
|
But your saying a CRT doesn't need a calibration with a Probe, only by Eye to get REC709. That is a false
and misleading statement.
And that JVC is better than your Marquee in more ways than your marquee is better than that JVC and I love Marquee's but I know the truth when I see it. And Cliffs Stack is the best CRT Image I have ever seen, Dual G90's no mods.
And we don't need to look at patterns all day to come to that conclusion. We watched movies not patterns.
I'll be gone for a while, I have to go Calibrate my Blend with Calman 5 Professional my PR 650 and i1 Pro D3 profiled to it.
I can not trust my eyes alone .
Nashou |
I never say i dont need a probe, why do you think i have one, and i think you remember me posting calibration files of different CRT setups.. The thing is you can make a CRT look damn good by eye, what is almost impossible with a digital.
Ask Justin if i had the need to rush out get his projector calibrated with a 7000$ meter, after we tweaked it.
I also never claim anything to be better, i say i prefer the Marquee, specially with the mods, and ill never go back to live with a standard Marquee, or a G90 for that matter.
Im all crazy about the way Mike make the Marquee perform, and i doubt there will be something around the corner to make me change direction.
Im quit new to CRT, its not like i started there, or got stuck inside one while growing up.
I also think you know ill buy whatever gear ill like to try, analog digital or whatever. |
It is not hard to make the latest Sonys and JVC´s to look good by eye, beacause if you know what pre setting to put it at most of them are very close to bt709 out of the box.
And also if you have a clue of what you are doing you can get a digital to look as good as a CRT by eye, but it is just stupid to even claim you can do this well by eye. And if Justin was happy with your by eye calibration he is ignorant and there is a saying: Ignorance i bliss.
Also you have a problem with only having a colorimeter and not have a spectroradiometer to profile it with, when you don´t profile your colorimeter you have no idea if it measures "correct" or not, but you already knew that did you not? And also your colorimeter needs to be sent in for recalibration on a regular basis, do you do that? |
So now we have devolved to anyone who doesn't agree with your subjective opinion is ignorant? WTF do you think you are?
Post modification Kurt was able to get a nice image by eye with my Marquee. Was it as good as if CIR (Craig) calibrated it? Obviously not and Kurt never stated that he could take it to that level. We were testing a variety of changes (and still are) so spending money on a top flight calibration would be pointless at this juncture.
I thought I read somewhere in this useless thread (in a post I believe by Diddern or Andreas) that going strictly by the results of the calibration equipment is a mistake many rookie calibrators make. When CIR worked on my other Marquee a few years ago he used all of his equipment to calibrate to given standards but then followed that up by using his eyes and various video material to make subtle changes to really dial in the image (especially in both dark and high contrast scenes). It's the combination of both that yields a top flight end result.
_________________
Projector: Modded 9501LC ULtra- MP VIM, Vold VNB, ETECH LVPS, Silver VIM Cables, HD10F's & a V1 case!
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| jbmeyer13 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | | stridsvognen wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Craig Rounds a pro calibrator tried and He just dismissed him in other threads.
It is pointless.
Nashou |
Sure it is, he sell Lumagen and G90 for a living.. Give me a good reason why he should like me.?
At least Andreas will then agree with me that the JVC is better than the G90, and that none of us would want a Lumagen in the video chain with the issues they have these days.
|
But your saying a CRT doesn't need a calibration with a Probe, only by Eye to get REC709. That is a false
and misleading statement.
And that JVC is better than your Marquee in more ways than your marquee is better than that JVC and I love Marquee's but I know the truth when I see it. And Cliffs Stack is the best CRT Image I have ever seen, Dual G90's no mods.
And we don't need to look at patterns all day to come to that conclusion. We watched movies not patterns.
I'll be gone for a while, I have to go Calibrate my Blend with Calman 5 Professional my PR 650 and i1 Pro D3 profiled to it.
I can not trust my eyes alone .
Nashou |
I never say i dont need a probe, why do you think i have one, and i think you remember me posting calibration files of different CRT setups.. The thing is you can make a CRT look damn good by eye, what is almost impossible with a digital.
Ask Justin if i had the need to rush out get his projector calibrated with a 7000$ meter, after we tweaked it.
I also never claim anything to be better, i say i prefer the Marquee, specially with the mods, and ill never go back to live with a standard Marquee, or a G90 for that matter.
Im all crazy about the way Mike make the Marquee perform, and i doubt there will be something around the corner to make me change direction.
Im quit new to CRT, its not like i started there, or got stuck inside one while growing up.
I also think you know ill buy whatever gear ill like to try, analog digital or whatever. |
It is not hard to make the latest Sonys and JVC´s to look good by eye, beacause if you know what pre setting to put it at most of them are very close to bt709 out of the box.
And also if you have a clue of what you are doing you can get a digital to look as good as a CRT by eye, but it is just stupid to even claim you can do this well by eye. And if Justin was happy with your by eye calibration he is ignorant and there is a saying: Ignorance i bliss.
Also you have a problem with only having a colorimeter and not have a spectroradiometer to profile it with, when you don´t profile your colorimeter you have no idea if it measures "correct" or not, but you already knew that did you not? And also your colorimeter needs to be sent in for recalibration on a regular basis, do you do that? |
So now we have devolved to anyone who doesn't agree with your subjective opinion is ignorant? WTF do you think you are?
Post modification Kurt was able to get a nice image by eye with my Marquee. Was it as good as if CIR (Craig) calibrated it? Obviously not and Kurt never stated that he could take it to that level. We were testing a variety of changes (and still are) so spending money on a top flight calibration would be pointless at this juncture.
I thought I read somewhere in this useless thread (in a post I believe by Diddern or Andreas) that going strictly by the results of the calibration equipment is a mistake many rookie calibrators make. When CIR worked on my other Marquee a few years ago he used all of his equipment to calibrate to given standards but then followed that up by using his eyes and various video material to make subtle changes to really dial in the image (especially in both dark and high contrast scenes). It's the combination of both that yields a top flight end result. |
I am just saying it is it is ignorant to think you will get anywhere near bt709. And this is not my subjective meaning.
And to calibrate with high end equipment is not guaranteed to get good results, to get this you need experience. And of corse every serious calibrator uses reference material to check if everything looks the way it should. And will do a recalibration or small adjustments if does not, if it is totally wrong they will do a full recalibration.
_________________
http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| jbmeyer13 wrote: |
When CIR worked on my other Marquee a few years ago he used all of his equipment to calibrate to given standards but then followed that up by using his eyes and various video material to make subtle changes to really dial in the image (especially in both dark and high contrast scenes). It's the combination of both that yields a top flight end result. |
That's way too much information for those guys. They are still dealing with the ABC's of calibration, and that's not in their training manual.
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stridsvognen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Diddern wrote: | Stridsvognen!!!!!!
Dansken!!!! Har du gått i ydmykelsesdvale.
Answer my question.
And here some more. Why do you need red and green c-element on crt?
What happens with color red and green when using filters when messhuring primary colors up to HDTV D65 Rec709 on a CRT with pro equipments .?
What happens to the colors if you have to much punch in the picture on your crt.
What happens to the total black on a CRT if you adjust hundred percent correct after video level 16 to 235 with no black crush?
what is your reference gamma? |
Sorry Dildo im back..
Gamma is around 2.4
CRT had colored elements long before digital was able to show colors, so its not like a thing to keep up with digital, and the smart feature with a filter is that it wont go all waco at some area of the curve like a calculation error, or software error. So no C elements have ever had a firmware update.
perfect 16-235 coming out of black with a 2.4 gamma will leave a perfect out of black on my projector.
Now hope you can tell me if your CMS unit will be able to remap/ recalculate each pixel real time.?
So that the correction will happens perfect to each pixel with movie material with no shortcuts or loss.?.?
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | jbmeyer13 wrote: |
When CIR worked on my other Marquee a few years ago he used all of his equipment to calibrate to given standards but then followed that up by using his eyes and various video material to make subtle changes to really dial in the image (especially in both dark and high contrast scenes). It's the combination of both that yields a top flight end result. |
That's way too much information for those guys. They are still dealing with the ABC's of calibration, and that's not in their training manual. |
Says the guy who just admitted he knows little about calibration.
I never claimed to be a calibration expert as I use pros to calibrate my PJ´s. But I know something about it and have witnessed a whole lot of different calibrations and have learnt something from it.
And if you read my post I say my calibrators always use reference material to check if everything is ok, but they would never calibrate with their eyes and claim it to be a bt709 calibration with delta E numbers under 1.
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