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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| opv wrote: | | My experience is totally different and I have seen and tested quite allot [sic] of digitals. |
Yes, I remember your list of digitals with which you've had "experience" - most were cheapo business models which aren't pertinent to this conversation. Of the home theater models that you have "experience" most have been reported widely by professional reviews as being very good out of the box in terms of brightness and contrast settings. Either you don't know how to measure and set those parameters properly, you saw bad units, or or you were using bad material. Or you're just talking out your ass - something for which you have already demonstrated a penchant.
| opv wrote: | | It doesn't increase peak light output. however, many of the scenes become brighter, thus the average light output in a movie, for example, does increase. |
What you said is - amazingly - technically accurate. The average brightness of any scene will increase as one increases contrast on any display, although it will also clip whites, and potentially mess with white balance and gamma as well.
But this isn't being contested. What is being contested - or should I say roundly rejected - is your asinine notion that, for some reasons, this is a common practice among the myriad of DLP, LCD, and LCoS users out there. You can't agree with yourself as why they do this, but you're sure that many do. While you're veering off down this path, you might also want to weigh in on how many angels one can fit on the head of a needle, what kind of rainbows unicorns can and can't ride, and whether or not Jimmy Hoffa, Gene Roddenberry, and Elvis are currently living in Argentina or on an alien spaceship.
| opv wrote: | | However, more advanced users |
Weren't you just going on about "average" digital users? And you want to compare their (alleged) practices to those of "advanced" CRT users? I'm considering starting an over/under here on how many times you'll step on your own arguments for the remainder of this thread...
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Damn, those are some nice "after" readings - was that all done with the on-board controls or were you using an external video processor?
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Calibration was done with a Lumagen Radiance XS.
Primaries and secondaries do also match perfectly.
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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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I think that's the difference and what the previous poster meant by CRT not being linear. You need to use a video processor with 20+ parametric points to really dial it in properly.
While it's a small subset, I found it impossible to get something reasonably flat on any of my CRT projectors while my JVC RS56 was almost flat out of the box. My RS56 has a lot of controls for it (including parametric/multi-point gamma adjustment built in) but I don't use most of the adjustments available.
Kal
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Correct Kal.
It's much more easier and accurate with a VP. I used 11-point greyscale. Next time i should try 21-point.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | Calibration was done with a Lumagen Radiance XS.
Primaries and secondaries do also match perfectly. |
Looked wery good, what kind of calibrating probe and equipment?
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ElTopo wrote: | Calibration was done with a Lumagen Radiance XS.
Primaries and secondaries do also match perfectly. |
Solid. The Radiance can certainly dial in a projector - I can't wait to get my hands on their fully 4K model!
Have you tried the 5x5x5 Autocal routine yet for the gamut? I found it actually made quite the difference for me.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: New tests and mods comming |
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[quote="geisemann"]Hi
These pictures shown on this thread were a non-calibrated 808 and it had an old RGB driver, old switcher with the old cables and old components. So a comparison is needed with the NEW gen mods I am working on. I don't think the 8-inch projector was fully calibrated.
A fully Mod ed 909 or Cine 9 will be the ticket for a full detailed comparison.
Do what you can do with the 808, you get the answer and proof and the truth later.
The calibration on it would not help much in my apinnion, offcourse more correct greyscale and colours.
But maybe the new stuff you do now helps, I hope so for the guy who payed total with shipment 3000$.
And get me a 909 modded from you to test , you get your answers not just talk.
Still having problems with the quote thing.
Maybe my phone.
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | I think that's the difference and what the previous poster meant by CRT not being linear. You need to use a video processor with 20+ parametric points to really dial it in properly.
While it's a small subset, I found it impossible to get something reasonably flat on any of my CRT projectors while my JVC RS56 was almost flat out of the box. My RS56 has a lot of controls for it (including parametric/multi-point gamma adjustment built in) but I don't use most of the adjustments available.
Kal |
Correct 
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1640
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Calibrated with:
Calman V4 + Sencore OCT1000 + Lumagen XS
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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stridsvognen
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | I think that's the difference and what the previous poster meant by CRT not being linear. You need to use a video processor with 20+ parametric points to really dial it in properly.
While it's a small subset, I found it impossible to get something reasonably flat on any of my CRT projectors while my JVC RS56 was almost flat out of the box. My RS56 has a lot of controls for it (including parametric/multi-point gamma adjustment built in) but I don't use most of the adjustments available.
Kal |
Kal i think what you see in your JVC is not the native response of your panels and video chain in the JVC..
It comes with a lot of presets, and if you play with them you vill see that you can do different gammut range.. much larger than the REC 709, so that must be corected, software based.
So in the end i might think that the CRT native behaviour is closer to perfect than any digital.
I seen Craig explain that somewhere..
And the Before calibration El Topo posted looks way off to me, and i doubt that corecting that much in the radiance is possible without any negative effect.
I find it very critical not to do any gamma corection out of black,, until about 20% IRE.. So get a perfect 2.22-2.25 gamma out of black, and then use the radiance to corect the blue bump in the high level.
And prefer no, or just very limited color corection on red/ green
Here is a gamma curve with no digital corection..
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overclkr
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 4227
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:08 am Post subject: |
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Just to add to this thread, YES it's troll time, and YES you can get proper balance and gamma with the Radiance and still be able to stick that hand out in front of your face and not find it with CRT. 
Oh and you JVC boys can kiss my big fat white rear. The stack SMOKES you JVC boys. Maybe one day they will grow some brass and put a 300W lamp in that PJ and retain the on/off as well as produce the LIGHT.
For now, well, I hate to say it (well, no I don't), while the JVC's are a fantastic and economical solution, they are NOT the G90 Stack. Let alone the Triple Stack. 
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| overclkr wrote: | Just to add to this thread, YES it's troll time, and YES you can get proper balance and gamma with the Radiance and still be able to stick that hand out in front of your face and not find it with CRT.
Oh and you JVC boys can kiss my big fat white rear. The stack SMOKES you JVC boys. Maybe one day they will grow some brass and put a 300W lamp in that PJ and retain the on/off as well as produce the LIGHT.
For now, well, I hate to say it (well, no I don't), while the JVC's are a fantastic and economical solution, they are NOT the G90 Stack. Let alone the Triple Stack. |
I have seen the stack and I approve this post !
nashou
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:41 am Post subject: |
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But does the stack work?
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Diddern
Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 821
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| overclkr wrote: | Just to add to this thread, YES it's troll time, and YES you can get proper balance and gamma with the Radiance and still be able to stick that hand out in front of your face and not find it with CRT.
Oh and you JVC boys can kiss my big fat white rear. The stack SMOKES you JVC boys. Maybe one day they will grow some brass and put a 300W lamp in that PJ and retain the on/off as well as produce the LIGHT.
For now, well, I hate to say it (well, no I don't), while the JVC's are a fantastic and economical solution, they are NOT the G90 Stack. Let alone the Triple Stack. |
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | But does the stack work? |
It's a catch-22 - running the triple-stack would require so much cooling air and be so loud as to make the theater unusable!
Sorry Cliff, couldn't resit double-trolling you 
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
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Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:50 am Post subject: |
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That'd be a catch 33 Hog
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Just talked to RayJr last night about the 4k sony. He said he and the reviewer could not tell resolution differences till they got 3 feet from the screen compared to his rs20. And when they lowered the light output to match the RS20's they could barely tell the difference. Also he said there were some other issues, but then said there will never be a perfect display.So for $22k or for $3-4k get a cheaper Digital. I agree, so like what you like and be done with it.
He prefers the JVC's
Nashou
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| overclkr wrote: | Just to add to this thread, YES it's troll time, and YES you can get proper balance and gamma with the Radiance and still be able to stick that hand out in front of your face and not find it with CRT.
Oh and you JVC boys can kiss my big fat white rear. The stack SMOKES you JVC boys. Maybe one day they will grow some brass and put a 300W lamp in that PJ and retain the on/off as well as produce the LIGHT. |
Something like this would be the exception I talked about where you can indeed get perfect blacks on CRT without crushing, and not see your hand in front of your face.
I would certainly hope a triple G90 stack with Radiance VP doing parametric gamma and other adjustments would be better as that's an insane amount of setup, cost, heat, and noise.
Can always count on Cliffy to stir the pot...
Kal
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